oil control ring gap question
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oil control ring gap question
I recently rebuild a LS engine for my Eg hatch. I was breaking it in na then was going to add my pieced together turbo kit and have it tuned. Well the engine was smoking very bad (blue smoke under load). It would burn a quart of oil in 150 miles. So I plulled the engine back apart. I had a reputable machine shop do all the machine work for me then I assembled the engine. This engine had perfect compression 187-185-185-189 so I'm really thinking it was the oil control rings. I was using conventional 10-30wt oil.
Build details
B18a1 block
81.5 Nippon piston
OEM spec ptw clearance
Stock rods resized with ARP bolts
Top compression ring gap .018
2nd compression ring gap .021-.022
Oil control rings .045-.050 ( I am thinking this is my oil burning problem)
B18a1 head
B18b1 cams
Crower valve springs
Crower ti retainers
Super-tech valves
New valve seals
When i pulled the head i measured valve guide clearance and it was a little loose so im having new guides and a valve job done while its off.
I just bought a new set of rings NPR for 81.5mm pistons. Six of the oil ring gaps are .018 and two are .024. All the compression rings are good.
This still seems loose to me. Is that gap too big??
Should I buy a set of 82mm rings and just file fit the oil rings??
When all said and done I'm only looking to make around 330whp with a precision 5431e billet wheel turbo.
Thank you any help is appreciated.
Build details
B18a1 block
81.5 Nippon piston
OEM spec ptw clearance
Stock rods resized with ARP bolts
Top compression ring gap .018
2nd compression ring gap .021-.022
Oil control rings .045-.050 ( I am thinking this is my oil burning problem)
B18a1 head
B18b1 cams
Crower valve springs
Crower ti retainers
Super-tech valves
New valve seals
When i pulled the head i measured valve guide clearance and it was a little loose so im having new guides and a valve job done while its off.
I just bought a new set of rings NPR for 81.5mm pistons. Six of the oil ring gaps are .018 and two are .024. All the compression rings are good.
This still seems loose to me. Is that gap too big??
Should I buy a set of 82mm rings and just file fit the oil rings??
When all said and done I'm only looking to make around 330whp with a precision 5431e billet wheel turbo.
Thank you any help is appreciated.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
The gaps on the oil rings seem too big to me out of the box. The specs I have say oil ring gaps should be .008-.020 with a service limit of .028 if I remember correctly.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
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Re: oil control ring gap question
Basicly I'm just wondering if my current oil ring gaps (.018-.024) is too big to run? I don't want the engine to burn oil when I get it back together!
Do you think my original oil ring gaps (.045-.050) was why the engine burnt so much oil? I'm sure the loose valve guide clearance may have contributed to the oil burning a little.
Do you think my original oil ring gaps (.045-.050) was why the engine burnt so much oil? I'm sure the loose valve guide clearance may have contributed to the oil burning a little.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
I've never gapped them and honestly I've never heard of anyone doing it.
the top and bottom oil ring gap isn't that important as it's the middle scrapers job to really control the oil. I would say try it as is because your only other option would be to call/email whoever you got the pistons from and see if they can supply you with an oversize oil ring set that you can try to properly gap but like turbohatch said, they are really too thin to gap without damaging them. either that or source another block with a stock bore and try again.
I've seen a few people who go on the looser side of OEM clearances have issues with the oil control rings... there's a reason OEM bores are a certain size and are almost never towards the looser side.
the top and bottom oil ring gap isn't that important as it's the middle scrapers job to really control the oil. I would say try it as is because your only other option would be to call/email whoever you got the pistons from and see if they can supply you with an oversize oil ring set that you can try to properly gap but like turbohatch said, they are really too thin to gap without damaging them. either that or source another block with a stock bore and try again.
I've seen a few people who go on the looser side of OEM clearances have issues with the oil control rings... there's a reason OEM bores are a certain size and are almost never towards the looser side.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
I've never gapped them and honestly I've never heard of anyone doing it.
the top and bottom oil ring gap isn't that important as it's the middle scrapers job to really control the oil. I would say try it as is because your only other option would be to call/email whoever you got the pistons from and see if they can supply you with an oversize oil ring set that you can try to properly gap but like turbohatch said, they are really too thin to gap without damaging them. either that or source another block with a stock bore and try again.
I've seen a few people who go on the looser side of OEM clearances have issues with the oil control rings... there's a reason OEM bores are a certain size and are almost never towards the looser side.
the top and bottom oil ring gap isn't that important as it's the middle scrapers job to really control the oil. I would say try it as is because your only other option would be to call/email whoever you got the pistons from and see if they can supply you with an oversize oil ring set that you can try to properly gap but like turbohatch said, they are really too thin to gap without damaging them. either that or source another block with a stock bore and try again.
I've seen a few people who go on the looser side of OEM clearances have issues with the oil control rings... there's a reason OEM bores are a certain size and are almost never towards the looser side.
i also always thought the thin oil rings gaps just needed to be .015+. personally ive run up to around .035-.040 on those thin oil rings and not had an issue with the engine consuming oil through the rings. (valve guides are a different story)
i have seen issues on oem motors that burn oil because the oil control rings got gummed and sludged up from improper maintenance
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Re: oil control ring gap question
This is how I set mine done them twice now.
http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/ringgap.htm
Just to add some of these people posting too have been through may more rebuilds than I have.
http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/ringgap.htm
Just to add some of these people posting too have been through may more rebuilds than I have.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
Thank you guys for the help I really appreciate it! I'm going to just install the rings I have. After comparing my gaps to the ones in the link above I should be just fine.
I just wonder why this engine burnt so much oil the first time around? After a couple hundred miles the pistons were completly gummed up with oily sluggy carbon (the best way i can discribe it lol). All the research I did pointed to the oil rings because my compression was perfect.
I just wonder why this engine burnt so much oil the first time around? After a couple hundred miles the pistons were completly gummed up with oily sluggy carbon (the best way i can discribe it lol). All the research I did pointed to the oil rings because my compression was perfect.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
WTF!!!
Got the car put back together. Drove 20 miles varying rpm and loading the rings pretty good. Came back pulled the plugs to see a ton of fresh oil sitting ontop of every piston!! What the hell am i missing here?
Ring gaps
Top ring .016
Second .020
Oil rings .018-.024 (only 2 are .024 the rest are .018)
I cant believe i have to rip this thing apart again!
Got the car put back together. Drove 20 miles varying rpm and loading the rings pretty good. Came back pulled the plugs to see a ton of fresh oil sitting ontop of every piston!! What the hell am i missing here?
Ring gaps
Top ring .016
Second .020
Oil rings .018-.024 (only 2 are .024 the rest are .018)
I cant believe i have to rip this thing apart again!
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Re: oil control ring gap question
A valve seal could have been pinched or ripped during installation or when the valves or valvesprings were installed.
if it was a ring problem then the oil would've burned off during the combustion cycle. if oil is sitting on top of the piston then it's a topend seal issue.
was the oil to one side or area of the piston more than others? if so start there.
if it was a ring problem then the oil would've burned off during the combustion cycle. if oil is sitting on top of the piston then it's a topend seal issue.
was the oil to one side or area of the piston more than others? if so start there.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
How could the well seals cause a leak into the cylinder assuming the plugs are sealed. I would believe they would cause the hole to fill up with oil. Leakey valve steams are fairly easy to see if you take the manifolds off.
you posted that as I was typing. yeah valve seals. Just to add in the one pic I think I can make out oil on the back of the valve where it ran down the stem.
you posted that as I was typing. yeah valve seals. Just to add in the one pic I think I can make out oil on the back of the valve where it ran down the stem.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
Just took it for a spin and it is definitely blowing a lot of blue smoke under engine load. It seems like rings and valve seals to me. I'm getting really frustrated with this damn thing! About to set the ****** on fire!!!
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Honestly the best thing to is to leave the car parked walk away for a couple days off.
Go get some cocaine and some hookers and clear your head.
I been here before I know how frustrating this is.
Go get some cocaine and some hookers and clear your head.
I been here before I know how frustrating this is.
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Re: oil control ring gap question
I'm gonna wait until Monday and talk to the machine shop that rebuild the head.