bex3m

Hi Guys,

I was just wondering why people O-ring their blocks?Why is that necessary?
I was told that Darton sleeves could not be made with o-rings because they were sinking sleeves...is it true or ??Can dartons be o-ringed??

Please help

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

People Oring sleeves to provide additional head gasket sealing. When a copper ring is used the wire usually stands .010~.015" proud above the deck. This crushes when the head is torqued down adding additional squish to the head gasket around the cylinders.

I cant speak specifically about Darton sleeves but the reasoning that they sink is laughable. If the sleeve sinks then its trash.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

darton sleeves can be o-ringed.

the only reason any sleeve sinks after install is because it was installed incorrectly. Either the block wasn't machined correctly or someone fucked up the sleeve install.

I've used darton sleeves exclusively on many builds with no issues

bex3m

thanks

EddieCRX

Wantboost

On the off chance would you know if there is a difference in the machining process between Darton and LA sleeves, I'm referring to the seating area at the base of the sleeves.

tepid1

There is a big difference in the machining process. Darton provides a better mating and sealing area at the base of the sleeve.

Also for the OP. Darton sleeves can be SS or copper O-ringed. I chose to use SS and have had zero head gasket issues and make over 1000whp.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yes darton sleeves use triple o rings at the base to seal it in the block and are simply dropped into place, making sleeve replacement simple. most other sleeves are epoxied at the base with no o rings and pressed into place. these sleeves are notorious for sinking (the pressed in epoxy kind) and replacing a damaged sleeve is a total bitch.

I might consider the SS o ring as well. the fact that it doesn't crush as much means at least to me better cylinder seal

tepid1

It doesn't crush at all. That's the purpose. You set the proper groove depth to the gasket you're using and that's it. Proper seal every time.

Andrew1706

what diameter o ring do you use?

also do you go to the effort of matching that radius in the groove?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It's not an o ring. rubber would never survive those temps

It's a circle of copper or stainless steel wire, typically .030" thickness. again there isn't a diameter really, you take a coil of wire, cut it to length then place it in the groove making sure the ends meet without a gap.

groove placement in the sleeve depends on bore size.

tepid1

That's kind of a secret. I will say that the grove is for the proper OD of the SS wire. There is no slop and in fact it's a very tight fit. It's critical that the wire doesn't move. The ends are filed flush. Tell me if you can see where the ends butt together.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I can see it but I'm good like that :D

I'm assuming that the groove for a copper ring and ss ring would be the same basic size? I really like the idea of ss over copper with the dart tall deck block I'm going to build.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I also like how you chamfered the edges of the holes for the head studs, but those look like holes for 1/2" studs to me

also debating on those as well

tepid1

This block is my pride and joy. Lots of time spent on this bad boy making everything perfect.

Just good ol' GE head studs. No need for 1/2". That was a good idea back in 1998.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

it must be the angle of the pic and the chamfer that makes the holes look bigger. that is one very clean block.

I'm assuming I can o-ring my dart block when I get it, there's very little sleeve material due to them being dry liners. I'm still torn on headstuds... the only company I know of making H11 studs still for hondas is InlinePro. ARP will custom make a set of their 2000 material studs. I'm trying to avoid going bigger diameter, as i really don't want to start cutting up a brand new block lol.

I don't know whether to go H11 or ARP2000. (84.5 or 85mm bore, 98mm stroke, minimum 6.000" BME aluminum rods) I'll shoot you a pm here in a bit. So many ideas and questions in my head lol

bigj228

hey sorry to bump a old thread but was following up on the stainless steel o-rings.. i have read that when using the SS o-rings you have to machine the head also? is this true? i just purchased a b18c AEBS blocks w/SS 0-rings (.12 thickness) and trying to do all the research i can before i start my official build.. Also I've see many members suggest using an oem head gasket w/copper 0-rings, what about the stainless? same? any help would be greatly appreciated..

TravisBiggie

sorrys get you no where here, especially bumping an old thread.

in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.

TravisBiggie

sorrys get you no where here, especially bumping an old thread.

in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.

tepid1

Head machining depends on how much the SS o-ring sticks out. You can use a OEM or GE headgasket.

OneBadTurboCRV

Late reply, but they butt together below of the hole that is in the "V" of where the cylinders meet in the first picture. Am I right? If I am, where is my stale cookie?

bigj228

The SS o-rings sticks up .12 based on research it's between .10-.12 is an average and was told to go with x4 the size .50 thick head gasket? Not 100% but a oem HG is .26.

bigj228

Never hurts to be polite. I'm here to learn and ask questions. Rather starting a new thread on something that can "sometimes" looked up. Thanks for your opinion but as stated current block already has the o-ringed installed.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

yea that's where they meet but I said it first lol

with the typical SS wire thickness for the o-ring you shouldn't have to machine a receiver groove in the head.

O rings work for high boost/compression/bore builds as it ensures a positive seal around each cylinder in addition to actually positively retaining the HG. anyone who has done a HG on a honda before knows how the gasket likes to wiggle around. There are more reasons but those are the most relevant IMO

If I were sleeving a block with the hopes of high anything I would o-ring it

bigj228

Thanks. But will a oem/GE HG work? The block is bored to 83mm and yes will be aiming for high boost.

OneBadTurboCRV

You said you see it, but not where the ends meet. So I win on a technicality. Now where is my stale cookie?