blackeg

Bleh, its still doin it.

I replaced the valveseals in my #4 cyl over the winter. Last year I had some oil on the top of the piston I could see through the spark plug hole. The ex. Valves had some crap on the stems where they go into the guide.

Well, my leakdown went from 10 to 5% in that cyl and the compression went from 220 like the others up to 230, but I've still got oil on the piston. The cyl walls weren't too bad no top to bottom vertical scoring. What's up with tthis crap...

rich7777

How were your valve guides?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Did you lube the new seals before installing them?
Are you sure its not burning oil left over?

blackeg

Eh they were so so. Looking through them I saw some crap in there that I got out with a fine pipe cleaner and some brake cleaner. I had attributed it to crud being deposited up there from oil on the valvestem coming from leaking seals...

If the valveseals are good with bad guides or not wouldn't oil not get past the seals

vyrus

iTrader: (1)

Even if the guides are bad, as long as the valve seals are good oil can't get through.

rich7777

Nope, the wobble of the valve will wreck the seal in No time.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Correct worn guides can still leak oil. Oil is either coming from the rings or the valves.

blackeg

I took the car to work today, got maybe 100 miles on it since its back together. Wouldn't suprise me if the guides are worn down I've been using the same head in my turbo engines for like 6 years and at least 50,000 miles

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

What seals did you use? I've had bad luck with anything other than OEM seals. Viton's leak like a siv lol

nealnanoHX

You have to use care when putting on the new valve seals as well. I had my B16 head fully rebuilt by a very good local shop and it smoked after I did the head swap but only after sitting for a while. Complained and told them the valve seals where leaking and they fixed it, they damaged 3 of them putting them on. If the car smokes all the time them it could be bad rings or incorrectly installed rings, bad valve guides, crank case pressure too high which is very common with Honda's (fix is a vent can) or it could be your turbo leaking oil past the seals.

blackeg

they are oem seals. i ghetto installed them with a 10mm socket and wooden handle. i made sure the outside of the socket fit over the outer part of the seal without touching/disturbing the inner part with the spring . i lightly tapped them on with the wooden handle of a rubber mallot then put a real light coat of oil on the inside of the seal where the valve comes through.

at this point im going to drive it until it gives up, it runs fine and the plugs are void of detonation.. just trying to get a scope of what i can repair or pay closer attention to for next time

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Whats the trick to installing valve seals correctly? Ive always tapped them into place too with a socket.

tepid1

Slow even pressure till they seat. I use a 10mm socket and it always works fine.

Matt, have you had the head inspected for hairline cracks? Has there been port work done to the head? Ever over heated the head?

blackeg

I have not had it inspected for hairline cracks, its stock port.

It blew a hg and overheated a few years ago but I had it milled and haven't lost a headgasket since.

Where would the most likely place for cracks be? Between the valves...

nealnanoHX

Slow and careful press them on. There is a tool that is sold by SnapOn, Matco ect that is for installing valve seals.

rich7777

I'm sure I normally use a 12mm socket as the seal fits inside it perfect... anyway I only apply a slight amount of body weight behind the extension on the socket and the seal pops on nicely.

blackeg

Just for the record I didn't hammer it on there. I had a socket on the end of the seal, got it started by hand and then gave a few light taps with the wood end of a small rubber mallot. I then checked it by hand to make sure it had "popped" on over the end of the guide.

Before I put the seals in after I lapped the valves I put the valve back in and tapped it back and forth through the guide with my fingertips to make sure nothing was binding or giving resistance.

I have a nice big bag of extra new oem seals I might leave the head on and toss new ones in quick to see. I can use the leakdown tester to keep the valve seated and with the spring removal tool I made I should be able to do each valve in just a few min each.

Should there be any oil or like wd 40 on the valve or guide when installing? Last time all that was dry, just a light coat of oil on the inner diameter of the seal

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

i would use some oil on the valve stem and on the seal for reassurance that it doesnt catch or bind on anything at all when installing the new ones

tepid1

I do it dry. I also use bronze valve guides, so that plays a small role in how the valve responds upon insertion. Little more resistance with oem guides.

racebum

you ever try the oil trick durring a compression test? if your numbers are moving up a lot with oil added the rings are suspect.

blackeg

Well I know whatever leakdown I have is through the rings into the crankcase. Im also running. 0045 ptw and. 022 and. 026 for my ring gaps. Ill probably give the oil trick a try soon. I spent this afternoon putting helicoils in all my stripped out holes all over my motor. Damn soft aluminum..


Unrelated side note, I think my magnaflow muffler is on the way out. According to a friend driving behind me I shot out some glowing embers while on the rev limiter the other day. I looked through the tailpipe and could see some fibers hanging from the holes inside my muffler. Its about 5 years old now so I guess it wasn't bad investment for 80 bucks

blackeg

ok, had a friend drive my car today and i followed behind to watch the smoking pattern.

it smokes on moderate to hard acceleration. ****.

it also smokes but to a lesser extent if you clutch in or decel, then hit the gas quick.

it smokes to an even lesser extent for a quick second as you come to a stop.
my catchcan setup vented from the valvecover with 2 -10 hoses is dry, and always has been so im not really over pressurizing the cylinders.

here are the plugs. i threw these in and put maybe 50 miles on car, mostly easy driving with a few quick boost hits. i think you can tell which one im talking about...


i honestly think that my oil control rings are washed up, with the possible inclusion of the 2nd ring in my #4 cylinder. the top ring must be ok, for that cylinder to have the good compression and leakdown as it does. ill probably make a new thread soon about premature failure of oil rings.

thankfully ive got a spare set of rings at home, and just ordered a flexhone and new headgaskets today. probably pull it back apart and rering over my spring break from work next week....

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

That blows. I have a spare set of rings in your size if you need lmk. I dont think you'd even need to rehone its been so few miles.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

I did the same thing, in car. Gangster as hell, but that car made 210 whp and 140 ft-lb, NA. It made 383 whp boosted

racebum

same symptoms and same plugs when i cracked a ringland