EJoneuglyhonda

So I had a 95 ex coupe, pretty solid car, however lots of bondo. So I bought myself a perfectly straight EK shell, and sent it to the paint shop for a fresh coat of EBP. Got it back and was going to swap my single cam in, when I thought to myself "what am I doing?"
Long story short, sold the EJ1, bought myself a GSR bare block, and got it decked and honed. I have decided to build for boost, so I come to you HT, to help me with my build.

I would like to build my engine to support about 600 hp, maybe a little more for reliability. Planning to bolt up a GT28, however I may want to upgrade later on to a GTX3576, Precision 5858, Bullseye S262... Haven't decided, you get the point.

Now so far I have begun making a list of parts for the block, I was thinking;
Eagle H beam rods
Wiseco pistons
Darton sleeves
ACL race bearings
ARP head studs

Now I understand the sleeves will have to be bored and honed to the piston specs.
With that said, what size sleeves would you suggest? What CR pistons would you suggest? Would you add/change any parts on my list?

I am relatively new to this, have never done such an extensive motor build, but have had a few boosted cars, and have grenaded a few motors. I read through the stickies, and they were very helpful, but figured a thread was worth my specific questions. I figure I'll do it right once and for all. This will be a relatively long term build, so money is not much of an object. But no absurdly expensive parts if there's a much less expensive part that is nearly as good and will get the job done. Dyno tuning will be done at Church tuning. I am pretty excited about it. Thanks HT!

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

You should be comfortable in the 10:1 range for CR, and a GT28 is probably going to be too small to get you to your goals. Look more at a GT(X)30 or 35.

EJoneuglyhonda

Ok thanks nota racist. I am guessing my goal will require some head work; i.e. Porting, valve job, etcetera?
Also I've read that the limit on pump gas is about 450 for these motors. Maybe less since our CA 91 sucks. Is that true? How do I address that issue? meth injection?

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

If you are sleeving the block, shoot higher. Get a bigger turbo and look towards E85.

Also, did you say not to suggest expensive parts but put darton sleeves on your list?

phaphon

You can run meth injection but I would just get two different tunes .

EJoneuglyhonda

Yeah freemananana I did put darton sleeves on the list. Noticed the price too. Is there a cheaper alternative that will get the job done? Is sleeving the block necessary? As of now, the alternative would be going with a b16a block and ditching the GSR, but I liked the idea of a 1.8 and was planning to use a b16a head anyway.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

500 wHP can be done on stock sleeves. Cylinder support system (CSS) is a cheaper alternative for 500 wHP.

If you want 450 wHP, just pick a turbo that performs efficiently at that power level and stick with stock, healthy, sleeves. The B-series can handle it.

EJoneuglyhonda

What for a CSS? Like a block guard? I don't really trust those, would rather just use stock sleeves unsupported.
Also should i get a forged crankshaft as well?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

CSS is a company that does good work. They're similar to block guards, but they're actually installed properly, and they're (from what I've seen and heard) better.

No, you don't need a forged crank. Now you're just talking about wasting comical amounts of money.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Css will even give a warranty if the sleeves crack under 500whp

When I called they said something like 900 motors are still running and only one cracked a sleeve at 900whp.

Sounds like a good plan to me and I will try it out one day.

EJoneuglyhonda

Awesome! Thanks guys, I will look into CSS, and skip the forged crankshaft

Charisma

Stick to a factory crank it'll save you a ton of cash.

I'm a little confused by the post here. You want to make 450 or 600? I've seen you throw both of these HP figures out there and was unsure which is your goal or expectation.

Me personally, if I was putting together a car with the goal of 450whp and money was a factor I would go 10:1 or 10.5:1 pistons with an eagle rod. Call DDTech for a camshaft based on your application. Toss a ramhorn mani with a 30R variant on it and let it eat. In CA it may be a bit different but I'd be running E85.

EJoneuglyhonda

My goal is 500+. 450 was a number I threw out saying id heard that's about the limit for our motors on pump 91. Was just asking if that's true. Said i want to build the block to support 600+ so I won't be worried about reliability as long as my tune is good. I am not sure if meth will be the ticket or just having a 91 tune and a C16 or 100 octane tune for the track. There are a few stations near me that supply 100, and I have access to C16so that won't be too hard to come by if that ends up being the way to go.
Obviously though I would be filling the car with 91 now and again so that's why I asked about the 450 limit.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Get the CSS with forged rods/pistons. Get a tune at 400 HP or so on 91 octane. Then get a tune at 600 on C16 for track days. You can research how to swap fuels.

Meth injection is good but has it's limits. Just make sure you have plenty of safety features built in for possible failures.

EJoneuglyhonda

Awesome thanks so much for the replies, you guys have all been really helpful!

EJoneuglyhonda

Ok so I have a build list. Things have gotten stupid expensive, pretty fast. I'm just glad the shell is sitting in my garage, the block is in my room, and I have a car to drive while the build is ongoing.

B18C bare block $150
OEM crank $80
Eagle H beam rods $340
CP 9.8:1 pistons 81.5mm. &650
ACL race rod & main bearings $160
ARP head studs $150
ARP main studs $95
Bore & Hone, Deck & Jetwash $350
CSS $300
Balance rotating assembly & check wrist pins $200

Omni power 3 bar map sensor $95
Hondata S300 $490
Sheepey ramhorn manifold $650
60-1 Garrett BB CART T3 stg3 $955
TiAl MVR 44mm external wastegate $350
TiAl 38mm MVS blowoff valve $260
CXRacing intercooler $225
Glowshift Digital boost, A/F & oil pressure gauges $335
Injector dynamics 1000cc (x4) $480
CNT 300 lph fuel pump $90
Blox Vacuum manifold $40
BWR 3" downpipe $310
SS oil drain/feed lines $50
NGK #4554 copper spark plugs $15
(gap .025 - .028)
CXRacing Intercooler piping kit $120
Silicone Couplers & T bolts $30
Misc. fab work $500

Edelbrock victor x IM $260
OBX 65mm TB $170
Brian Crower Stg2 turbo cams $420
Supertech Dual valve springs & retainers $470

So tell me what you guys think; anything you'd add? Change?

I've been thinking, I know how the mod bug bites me, and though 500+ hp sounds like plenty, I might thirst for more down the road. I was thinking maybe I should use Manley I beams instead of the Eagle H beams.. How much power can the factory crank withhold? What about the cp 9.5cr pistons?

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Not sure on the rods but your crank does NOT need to be replaced. Aftermarket honda cranks are a waste of $ & usually end up w/issues.

Curious on the rods..im using eagles for mine and plan for 500+. Max 600whp. Hoping not to have to double back and swap them.

What fuel are you running? Most people go 10:1+ on the comp these days. Need to know the fuel your going to run before I can really suggest anything though.

EJoneuglyhonda

Got it. Was planning to stick with the OEM crank, just wanted to know what kind of power it can support, to know whether I might want stronger rods.

I will be running shitty California 91 on a low boost tune, and VP racing 110 on a high boost tune.

I guess I can go 10:1, just feel a little safer at 9.5. But if you guys think 10:1 is the way to go, I will do that.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The OEM crank has seen power in the four digits many times in the past, without fail. Your 500 won't even break a sweat on it, assuming it's clearanced and tuned correctly.

EJoneuglyhonda

Ok thanks notaracist. Excuse me I said 9.5:1 pistons, I meant 9.8:1. What's the limit on those?

Btw I appreciate you all humoring me I know I have lots of questions. I'm still learning.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That 60-1 will be hard pressed to make those numbers on 91 octane and barely 500 with that smaller exhaust wheel... yes, even bask-bearing cartridge

Stay Garrett, but look to something else

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Maybe something in the GTX32xx series might get him there? I'm not totally sure, but the 3076 should be getting my dead-similar build to ~400, so I'd imagine one step up should get you into 500 territory. Could be wrong on that, though.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Kinda, yeah.. Even though there's no such thing as GTX32 of any kind. But I see where you're getting at. He needs to have something with a turbine wheel over 35lbs/min efficiency matched with something about 60lbs/min on the compressor side at minimum.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

So they make a GTX30 series, and a GTX35 series, but no GTX32 series?

I'm still out on limbs here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the GT3271 looks like it'll be right at the top of it's limits for OP's goals, whereas the GTX3576R would be just getting into stride around OP's goals.

Garrett's spec sheets say the GTX2863R would be able to do it, as well, but that seems to go against what I've learned in the past.

1158

*Cough* TR3030R *cough*