Marvin1985

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to switch to a gsr crank pulley and a 110mm rotrex pulley. Should correct my issue and redline me at 8400rpms. All this for 70whp

Andy8

Has anyone compiled a list for crank pulley diameters? I did a quick google search and haven't found anything definitive.

LightningTeg

The biggest advantage I see is packaging honestly, and the torque gradually increasing with RPM is good for traction yes, on the street maybe. But it leaves something to be desired in the mid range. It seems like K series are a better engine to put these on because they can make so much more midrange to make up for it with the I-VTEC.

I think id rather have a turbo that reaches peak torque by 3500/4000rpm and holds it flat so when you are mid corner back on the throttle you are in full power right away and not preparing for the car to launch forward as the engine climbs in RPM. It would be cool to get some feedback from track users on this as I have no real world experience with it.

My stock LS with the GT2560R made 300ft-lbs very early in powerband and it didnt have the "blow the tires off" feeling even with street tires. Im sure with some nice sticky R compounds going around a track it would never be an issue.

Rollo Lawson

I believe the calculation for the c30-94 is charger ratio x rpm x cp diameter / charger pulley diameter. I.e 7.5 x 8400 x 140 ÷ 100= 88,200 charger speed. The c30-94 should be geared as close to 100k rpm as possible for max psi

JRCivic1

Rollo, the supercharger drive ratio on the C30-94 is actually 9.49 and not 7.50. The 7.50 drive ratio corresponds with the C38-91.

The rest of your calculation is sound... so if we plug in the proper values in their place, we get the following: 9.49 x 8400 x 140 / 100 = 111,600 RPM blower speed. This is WAY too high and dangerous to the longevity of the supercharger itself.

Go with the GSR crank pulley and 110mm blower pulley Marvin... that combination is the right choice for you.

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

Rollo Lawson, you have the C38-91 supercharger... and you have correctly identified the supercharger drive ratio of YOUR blower being 7.50:1 Also just to clarify, the maximum blower speed of a C38-91 is only 90,000 RPM and NOT 100,000 RPM (which is the unique maximum blower speed of the C30-94), so the calculation that you have illustrated above reaching a supercharger redline of 88,200 is very close to the true redline of your supercharger. Using the GSR crank pulley and 100mm blower pulley and spinning the engine to a redline of 8650 RPM yields a maximum blower speed of 90,176 RPM.

Rollo Lawson

Thanks for the correction, I was going off of memory hence me mentioning "i believe". c38- 7.5 (90k), c30- 9.49 (100k). Had them backwards because I had both kits... Too many numbers in my head

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

Update fellow "B" series fans...

I mentioned a customer above with a built 82x89mm GSR engine. It is stuffed with 12:1 Wiseco pistons and a full compliment of Skunk2 induction components including Pro1 cams and valvetrain, Pro series I/M and 68mm billet T/B, Alpha header and 3" cat-back exhaust. A Hondata s300 equipped ECU and a set of Deatschwerks 1000cc injectors take care of the fueling issues. Being overly protective of a "high strung" engine like this, we chose to tune the car on C16 to provide more than a comfortable margin of octane to keep detonation at bay. Finally, we topped the whole power package off with a Kraftwerks C30-94 supercharger kit and and a GoAutowerks intercooler/piping kit.

Maxing out the blower speed at a redline of 8400 engine RPM, we produced the following results:

370 wheel HP and 241 ft/lbs Torque.

I will get a print out posted for you all on Monday or Tuesday... but I wanted to share the results right away.

The customer is ecstatic, and his excitement and enthusiasm only intensifies my hopes for my own build. I cannot wait to get mine done and see how much better my combination will perform.

Stay tuned fans.

DA BOSS

iTrader: (1)

^ What did that motor make N/A? Are cams at 0,0? I have a feeling that if there were no cam angle changes then that car can make more. The pro1s still make power out past 9500. With a "cap" of 8400 to not over rev the blower I think you're leaving a lot of power on the table (which actually is good news). I think there's more on that setup if cams are at 0. It's about 3 hours to really figure out cam settings that work - but worth his dyno time if he's up for it. W/ only 12:1 CR he has easily 3 degrees and maybe 4 to play with on each cam and in each direction (+/-). On c16 he DEF can make more than what's posted for sure.

wunfstgsr

Sweet! how much boost?

KevinEF7

People are making those numbers on stock motors with pump gas. A motor with the parts you mentioned would be 600+whp with a C16 tune and a midsized turbo

Shlts a waste of money

Andy8

Soooo I'm failing to see how your comments are anything positive to this KRAFTWERKS SUPERCHARGER thread. This isn't a debat on turbo vs rotrex or what have you. This thread is information for those that are interest or have experience with these superchargers. To each their own whether it be turbo,supercharger,nitrous, n/a.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well,I don't think power is a big part of being competitive with turbocharging. I think it's for those that have to deal with serious restrictions and emissions problems in California, new York and other locations with that issue.., plus, as with many things, just one more alternative to consider for someone that just may want a bit more power without all the a/c headaches.

ls joker

idk, it has its benefits. it honestly performs exactly like a turbo setup. but we didnt quite make the numbers that were advertised, cant rev over 8400, and we can only get maybe ten pounds of boost outta it. on paper it sounds like one should just go turbo, but it performs good.

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

DA BOSS, I don't remember the exact power numbers, but I believe it was between 205 and 210 wheel HP in N/A form. The cams were not degreed before, but Skunk2's "Quick Cam" settings were used.

wunfstgsr, boost was just over 13 psi right at redline.

kevinef7, I have never seen a "B" series powerplant with a medium frame turbo at less than 14 psi make 600 wheel HP. As Andy8 has stated above, this is not a turbo v. supercharger debate thread. The spirit of this thread is to share experiences and technical/tuning tips with those who already own these kits or to inform and educate those who might be purchasing one in the future. Your comments are not productive, so please go troll elsewhere.

ls joker, don't get caught up in the 8400 rpm rev limit. You can rev to a higher engine speed if your engine internals can accommodate such behavior (and makes power higher up) and the supercharger is topped with the proper sized pulley so as to maximize blower speed at your target redline. The part that you may be confused about (along with DA BOSS above you) is the idea that "IF you make XXX wheel HP at 8400, you will make MORE HP at 9000 or 9500". Peak wheel HP numbers come at maximum SUPERCHARGER speed... and this can be reached at many different engine RPM speeds based on the customer's requirements. Assuming the kit is installed with the proper pulley, the graph shape will be the same no matter what the redline of the engine is. So, lets say you pulley it for a maximum blower speed at 8500 engine RPM, and then you re-pulley it for maximum blower speed at 9000 engine RPM. Peak wheel HP will be the same, and the latter system will make the same power at 8500 RPM as the former system made at 8000 RPM... the same power at 7000 RPM as the former system made at 6500 RPM... and so on.

So, the question is, which is more important to you: MAXIMUM power at any given engine RPM with a stock-like engine redline, or LESS power throughout the power band with a really high engine redline. I would only recommend the latter for very specific types of racing where a specific engine redline is required. For the street or short course autocross or road racing... I recommend the first choice. Communicate your needs to your installer and tuner for the proper recommendations, or feel free to give me a call if you need additional help.

ls joker

one, the build is a k series build. two, i know the higher power throughtout band is ideal. third, i havent really seen any builds where the crank pulley is changed with results. idk, tuner was able to find thirty whp by playing with the vtc. from my point of view, theres clearly something not being established.

i do hear you though

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

ls joker, I do realize you have a "K" series powerplant... and I love the pics that you posted by the way. The basic performance principles seem to be similar for "B" and "K" series engines with a Kraftwerks Supercharger. As for changing crank pulleys on a "K"... I try not to do that if I can help it. I consider the crank and blower pulley as a matched pair. I always try to meet the blower and engine speed requirements with a blower pulley mated to the stock crank pulley and only change the crank pulley if I cannot meet the customer's target requirements with a blower pulley alone. Then a change in both pulleys is utilized. Dramatic pulley changes are easier to do on the "K" series because there are lots of serpentine belt choices to choose from. Using the stock crank pulley size on the "B" series kits is ideal because belt choices are limited.

wunfstgsr, your engine bay pics look awesome too. I really like your radiator hoses (I must confess I have the same ones LOL). I look forward to seeing your dyno results with your new set up. How long do you expect before you are ready to tune ???

wunfstgsr

Thanks i like them too! there one of the newest additions haha. The engine is ready to go i just need to put on the blower to retune only i wont get to it till late august. I have a few bills to pay thats more important but ill get back to it soon. Last upgrades set me back just a bit but im gonna take my time i just baught a new car to daily drive so its at home just waiting, Im glad some are interested in my build as i kinda felt my post are irelivant here since im not using a KW kits hence why i deleted my last post. But I actually feel it does because its still a B series using a Centrifugal supercharger. I remember years back people thinking i had a rotrex blower retrofited because these kits were not out then. I will deff come back and share my results. I completley imo redid the engine to accomadate the Pro Charger supercharger. I think it should make near or more than 350 hp at around 15 psi max at a 8400 rpm redline. Still using a stock Crate C5 short block. My new upgrades are,

ATI pro charger rebuilt fresh with upgraded impeller and helical gear set.
Outlaw Ported polished Type R crate cylinder head by JDM Concepts of Vista CA
Sk2 Tuner 2 camshafts/valvetrain
Sk2 Ultra street manifold (plenium spacers will be added later for dyno tests)
Sk2 74mm Throttle
Sk2 Alpha Version 2 exhaust manifold
debating on going 3'' or sticking to the 2.5 Mega R catback
hondata S300
ID 1000 cc injectors
91 pump gas

ls joker

upgraded impeller??????

i think most of the reason he not overly with joy for the kit is because of this freakin mustang dyno. he knows more of the kit and 8th gens than i. i just shared our finding. dont think i shared his results though. ill just say, it wasnt skunk2 numbers

wunfstgsr

Yea they make upgraded impellers for centrifugal blowers like Paxton, vortech, pro charger. I had mine done at pro charger. Impeller alone cost me $900 kinda pricey compared to the link I shared and the rebuild was more on top but well worth it IMO.

http://superchargerrebuilds.com

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

ls joker, don't ever feel like you didn't do something right in your install just because someone else made more HP on a different brand of dyno. There are some generally accepted comparison values to be able to compare results from different brand dynos, but these calculations should only be used to give one a general idea as to if they are producing results that are in the ballpark.

Let me give you a real world example:

Last fall, I had a customer with a 2007 Civic Si and a Kraftwerks supercharger kit installed on it come in for a re-tune. I had tuned it two years prior for the original kit purchaser and it made 317 wheel HP on my DynoJet with the kit and an upgraded clutch... everything else was STOCK. Fast forward two years, and the new owner of the car has upgraded the header and cat-back to new Skunk2 products expecting a 30-40 wheel HP increase. I tried every tuning trick I knew and I could barely get the car back to the 317 it had made previously. So I called Kraftwerks and discussed it with them... and they claimed that this same combination on their "conservative" Superflo dyno made 340 wheel HP with a very safe tune. I asked them to email me that tune... and after plugging it into my customers car, I made a pull. Result: 297 wheel HP !!! That is a FAR CRY from 340. So how is that for dyno difference ???

ls joker

thats pretty devastating

pm me if you know anyone looking for a kraftwerks kit. less than 2k miles on it. believe were gona put these blueprint stage2s in, then retune it. then pull for a turbo build

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

It shouldn't be devastating ls joker... the problem isn't the Kraftwerks supercharger, but in fact a damaged engine from two years of abuse. Combine that with my dyno being a "heart breaker" of sorts because it reads lower than most within 6 hours drive from me. Other factors have to be considered... but I see no reason why we cannot get similar, if not better results on a 2.0L "K" than we are seeing on a "B" series kit, especially in the mid-range since you have the advantage of VTC. The biggest problem at this point is practical exposure... I say dig deeper and exhaust all possibilities before you give up on this system and go turbo. Following a tried and true path is certainly appealing, you will also be gaining some known negatives with that turbocharged power. Weigh it out and make the call.

Call me at the shop if you need help.

ls joker

yea i mite pm you

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

Ok, here is a pic of that dyno sheet that I promised you all over the weekend... sorry it took so long.

Also, here is a pic of the JDM ITR Kraftwerks car that I had tuned previously (the 351 WHP one).