riceball777

I'm running the fid ev14 2200cc injectors. My tunner is Sean church. On e85 the car idles and drives great but on straight pump gas the idle is rough and the car bucks when I'm cruzing at low load at about 20 inhg of vacuum. So I went back to my tuner and he spent quite a while street tuner my car. The car idles on pump gas at about 12.0:1 air fuel and when in very light load cruzing the air fuel is around 11-12.0:1. The car now drives fine. When my tuner try's to lean it out the car would buck /injectors turning off. He said that the injectors pulse width is already set as low as possible during light load situations. Even though the car drive fine on pump gas now my tuner said long term with the air fuel being so rich is bad for my new engine. He suggest that I buy a smaller injector. I have no other options besides the new fic 1650cc injectors, as Id 1000cc and 1300cc injectors are too small and will max out on e85.

Pic of my bay to bring in more views.

Does anybody have good idle and drivability results with 2000cc injectors on straight pump gas?

Has anyone tried the new fic Bosch 1650cc ev14 high impedance injectors? I ran a web search and there's quite a few high power supras and gtr's that have been switching to these new fic 1650cc injectors from 2000cc injectors because of the same issues I'm having. They seem to say drivability on pump gas is greatly improved over 2000cc injectors

hardcore97

i have FIC 2150's and no idle problems on e85

riceball777

I don't have problems with e85 either. It's pump gas that's the problem.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

2000's on gasoline aren't going to idle great but drive ability shouldn't be bad.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

T1 posted a video a couple years ago of the ID2000s idling a stock LS on pump gas. You can do it if you don't mind idling really rich.

I run the EV14 1600s from FiveOMotorsports on E85 and love them. I think the 1600/1650cc would be a good middle ground for you. At 597hp (Std CF) I was at 76% injector duty with them so I have enough injector left for approx 740hp.

Another option is run 8 smaller injectors but I don't think you're there yet

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I can idle my car on id2000's E98 perfectly but gasoline is difficult to be near stoich and idle smooth

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I bet you're at or near 1% duty on those big boys.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I can get the car to idle 16:1 no problem but the cams like more fuel and it idles better at 13.5 but before the rollers on a 3 lobe It would idle 16-17:1 if I wanted and smooth

riceball777

How is the idle and drivability of the 1600cc injector on straight pump gas? Let's all stop talking about e85. Even my current 2000cc injectors idle and drive great on e85. Pump gas is the issue here.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Your idle and cruise AFR is pretty rich but that's due to you not being able to lower the pulsewidth any further. The bucking is undoubtedly from the injectors shutting down at lower pulsewidths.

Your only option like others have stated is either go to 4 slightly saller injectors or run 8 staged injectors.

Of course you could just run e85 all the time but availability in your area could make that problematic.

What's your base fuel pressure? It might be possible to lower your base pressure a bit to decrease the amount of fuel the injector flows for a given pulsewidth.

riceball777

Yep That is exactly what's happening. Durning light load situations when cruzing the injector pulse width are also at the lowest point. The car bucks and the air fuel goes to full lean because the injectors are just turning off.

The only way to fix it was to run the car extremely rich in the 11's in terms of air fuel during these low load cruzing situations.

Base pressure is 42psi. I do not want to run the car on e85 100% of the time. I wish I could but the closest station is about 15 miles away. This is suppose to be a street car so it much run on 91 octane the majority of the time.

I'm going to buy the new dw 1500cc injectors and go back for a retune.

extremeracer

I run the same Five0 injectors on my 84x89 B series and they run fine on pump gas, you can't idle much leaner than 12.5 on them, but drivability and on/off throttle response is very good considering the size. I also run them on E96 and they work great.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'm about to jump into the ethanol world as well since there's a station 5 miles away from where I'm moving and 2 more have opened up around me.

How much injector were you using on e85? 2000cc seems a bit big for the power you were making

0Fuel Injector Clinic

We've had a lot of great feedback about our new 1650cc injectors as they run really well on gasoline as well as E85, which is one of the big benefits of going with this injector. They're also compatible with all fuels including those with MTBE, and will resist the corrosion that can result from having an injector sit with E85 in your system.

The other secret ingredient to this recipe which also affects how well they perform at idle is that we latency match every injector to ensure that they all behave very similarly at extremely short pulse widths, and avoid the exact issues you're having here. This individual latency matching benefits all of our performance injectors, but has the most impact on our largest sizes, starting from our 2150cc and moving on to our 1650cc, and our 1100cc, and so on. Without latency matching, you can see as much as a 25% variance from injector to injector-- they'll all behave different as a result and this will make it difficult tune your vehicle especially at idle on pump gas, like you are describing here.
This individual latency matching goes above and beyond the standard matching process that most companies do, but we feel the results are worth it when it comes to idle quality for our customers, especially those with street cars. We include our Data Match Technology sheet with each injector set so you can see the actual slope flow and latency values for your injectors to use the most precise data possible for dialing in your tune.

If you have any questions or just want to chat, give us a call at (561) 427-0082... we always have someone here to offer support both for our potential and our current customers.



Check out a video and read more about our Data Match Technology here: Data Match Technology



Here's a quick and simple video clip of our 1650s idling on a stock Evo X, using the injector scaling and latency data provided with the injector set. In closed loop fueling you can see that the fuel correction is under 3% at around 700 rpm, showing the car idling rock solid at stoich.
For an in depth video review on our 1650s from English Racing, check this out:
Here's one of our SFWD Civics running 8 1650cc injectors, just happened across this photo just now and wanted to share it:

riceball777

I just ordered a set of the new fic ev14 1650cc injectors. I hope the car can to drive like stock on pump gas with these new injectors.

0Fuel Injector Clinic

Nice, they should work out great for your car to run well on gasoline and E85.
You will find your personalized Data Match Technology sheet in the box with your injectors when you receive them, please hold onto this sheet so you have this data when you tune your vehicle to help dial it in quickly and easily.
If you can, please come back and post some feedback after you have them installed and tuned.

If you have any questions during install or tuning you can feel free to call us directly at (561) 4427-0082 and we will make sure you are taken care of.

V-SPEC 1

I've tuned few cars with id2000 on 93 octane unleaded pump gas and they idle pretty good and also at cruising low load.

riceball777

My new fic 1650cc injectors came in today. I'll be going in tomorrow for a retune. I hope I can get these to run on pump gas like a stock car with stock like idel.

riceball777

I have been running these new fic 1650cc ev14 injectors for a few month now and they are great. The idle and drivability is way better than 2000cc injectors. I can run 91 octane with no issues now. They also support my. 617whp on e85 with plenty of room to spare. These should be good to well over 700whp on e85 at stock fuel pressure. 2000ccinjectors are really a e85 only injectors and simply are too big for pump gas.

0Fuel Injector Clinic

Thanks for the feedback! We greatly appreciate it and we're glad the 1650s are working out for you, as they are a fantastic injector!