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Old 04-09-2010, 05:57 AM   #1
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Default How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

I just got my hands on a b16a2 full swap for cheap with the piston rings gone. I'm thinking about getting an LS Bottom end and building it to the point where it's Rod to Stroke ratio is going to be reliable and have a lot of power as well, I drive this car as a daily most of the time, and do think about keeping it. Also the other thing I was concerned about was the axles, what kind of hasport or aftermarket axles should I run ? What kind of cooling system, because I know boost creates a lot of heat. I never had a boosted car in my life before, this is why I came over here to ask the Honda Gurus. I'm thinking about taking it to the dragstrip to have a little fun next year, and drive it on a daily, but then again I want to keep up the regular reliability on it as well. I really don't care about doing much to the head so far, you guys have to understand, I want to take the cheapest route possible. I'd rather keep reliability up than anything else.

Bottom End: Sleeved or No ? Crank ? Main Bearings ? Cap Bearings ? Rods ? Pistons ? Piston Rings ?

Fuel Supply / EMS; Injector displacement ? Fuel Pump ? What kind of Engine Management system ? Ecu should I run ?

Drivetrain: I was thinking about running a s4c tranny for shorter gears, I was wondering if I'll be able to hook with this tranny at the drag strip with slicks, or Falken Ziex street tires ? What stage clutch ? I definitely want to run a OEM flywheel to get better grip on to the clutch, a lighter flywheel will definitely not grab as much as a OEM flywheel.

Head is stock. Remember, I want to go with the cheapest route, I'm just thinking about keeping it reliable as of now. Head work can be done later.

Oil Cooler: I never had a boosted car and never paid any attention to oil coolers as far as this goes ? Is this a requirement as far as 250-350whp ?

Finally last but not least ?
Turbo: What size Turbo, What kind of Turbo ?

This is why I came here on Honda-tech, help me out honda-techers. Let me know if I missed out on anything ... every little bit of information helps, so fire away!
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

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Originally Posted by EF9_TryMe View Post
Also the other thing I was concerned about was the axles, what kind of hasport or aftermarket axles should I run ? What kind of cooling system, because I know boost creates a lot of heat. I never had a boosted car in my life before, this is why I came over here to ask the Honda Gurus.

Bottom End: Sleeved or No ? Crank ? Main Bearings ? Cap Bearings ? Rods ? Pistons ? Piston Rings ?

Fuel Supply / EMS; Injector displacement ? Fuel Pump ? What kind of Engine Management system ? Ecu should I run ?

Drivetrain: I was thinking about running a s4c tranny for shorter gears, I was wondering if I'll be able to hook with this tranny at the drag strip with slicks, or Falken Ziex street tires ? What stage clutch ? I definitely want to run a OEM flywheel to get better grip on to the clutch, a lighter flywheel will definitely not grab as much as a OEM flywheel.

Head is stock. Remember, I want to go with the cheapest route, I'm just thinking about keeping it reliable as of now. Head work can be done later.

Oil Cooler: I never had a boosted car and never paid any attention to oil coolers as far as this goes ? Is this a requirement as far as 250-350whp ?

Finally last but not least ?
Turbo: What size Turbo, What kind of Turbo ?

This is why I came here on Honda-tech, help me out honda-techers. Let me know if I missed out on anything ... every little bit of information helps, so fire away!

**** dude, have you ever read tech info on here? There's a FAQ in this forum that will answer most of your questions....However...

For your goals, I wouldn't even bother with lsvtec. Just get your b16 bottom end rebuilt. Stock internals could handle your goals (with good tuning), but if you really wanna be safe you could go with forged pistons/rods (don't ask which ones, look it up). Sleeving wouldn't be necessary unless you wanted over 400ish whp. What are you asking about bearings? Do you need new ones? Yes. ACL or Honda OEM, whatever your builder prefers to use, they come in a set.

Just make sure your cooling system is functioning properly i.e., no ratty *** radiator/hoses/cooling problems.

Stock axles can handle SO much more than the power you're talking about.

There are multiple EMS's you could use. Find out where you can get the car tuned, and ask them what they recommend. It'll be best if it's tuned by someone comfortable with the software being used. For your goal you sould be fine with 550cc injectors. Walbro 255 or even 190 would be fine for what you want.

The clutch is up to you. Search. There are different options that will work, depending on what you want. Hmmmmm I had a fidanza 8lb flywheel on my turbo car and it "gripped" just fine, not sure what you're talking about there....at any rate, oem flywheel is fine....probably take it in when you get the block redone and make sure it's primo...(but it's likely fine)

Leave the head stock then, just get ARP studs and a new oem hg.

No oil cooler needed.

There are probably a hundred different turbos that would suit your needs. Research it. Depends on how much you wanna spend. For max cheap, I guess find some journal bearing t3/t4 variant, or a holset.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

Okay, correct me if Im wrong but a higher Rod to Stroke ratio is used for more power, but less reliability right ? and a Lower Rod to Stroke ratio is used for less power and better reliability right ? I'm sorry if I'm asking questions, but I just want a basic setup.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

forget about the rod/stroke ratio. it is irrelevant in your case.
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

as for the turbo, i was thinking about running a A/R .63 for around 4000-8000, since b16's rev up to about that, or should i go smaller for a quicker spool, and less rpm range ?
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

And the other thing I wanted to know I always got A/R and Trim mixed up together, I want to know what really Trim is. I already know the basic defnition of A/R ... But in what terms is Trim ? I know the whole mathemetical equation, but to what point and what does it do ? Like what is the purpose of trim ? Torque ? mid Range power ? Etc ? I looked all over the web and its saying something about a stupid equation. Not generally stupid, but just the fact that it's telling me nothing but a number ... like what's the point of a lower trim ? higher trim ? standard trim ? Quicker Spool ? Bigger boost ? What ?
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

dude just run stock block, stock internals, use arp rod bolts, get it all balanced, install block guard, get log style mani, run a 50 trim turbo, and get the rest of the **** for the turbo setup. you should be okay with running like 500 or 600 cc injectors for that ammount of power.


now if you were in my situation(15psi or what ever ammount of hp comes from that) then ya mabey you would/should look into more of an investment on the motor.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

yeah with the b16 you should be able to run 250-300 comfortable with a log mani and 50 trim and good tune.... if you have the money you should look into forged internals especially if your gonna look for more power in the future ( which you probably will )

find a good tuner and see what system they can comfortably tune with
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

go with a lsvtec. the stock sleeves with a block gaurd can hold well over 400hp at 17 psi safe.. just build your internal.. rods and pistons. i made 430hp with a lsvtec setup.. type r head. ls block.. drag turbo manifold.. with a sc61 turbo .. 3 inch downpipe and a hondata s200 fuel management..
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914

Here is a thread for you.. I think you would love the LS/Vtec turbo. Mine is stock but when I was running it 3/4's throttle it was a pretty nice little ride. I am currently fixing my head for other reason's that I should have done more research on. I wasn't able to use this thread when I done mine, but it is a great thread to go through and learn on.
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

This is why I came here to ask question, I'm doing a lot of research, and I'm new to boost, but most of the time when I find a thread that has the same exact question I am asking .. I get negative answers, flamed, or things like .. "do research on." I read the FAQ info on forced induction here about A/R, and it makes sense. Now I'm trying to figure out what people mean by "Trim?" Because most say it's not the same thing as A/R.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

a high rod/stroke ratio means a long rod with smaller stroke. but just leave it at that, there's too much that's tied to it for it to be a meaningful attribute.

http://www.rx7club.com/printthread.php?t=345518 (discussion on trim) read a few posts down.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

Quote:
Originally Posted by EF9_TryMe View Post
This is why I came here to ask question, I'm doing a lot of research, and I'm new to boost, but most of the time when I find a thread that has the same exact question I am asking .. I get negative answers, flamed, or things like .. "do research on." I read the FAQ info on forced induction here about A/R, and it makes sense. Now I'm trying to figure out what people mean by "Trim?" Because most say it's not the same thing as A/R.
that's because print is not the same as A/R.term refers to the distance difference between the inducer or exducer of a compressor or turbine wheel. it is based on the equation listed here:

Click the image to open in full size.

Simply having a larger trim does not necessarily mean that the Turbo is larger overall. For example, A GT40 variant may have a smaller trim wheel than A GT30R that has a 56 trim wheel. That does not mean that the GT40 is actually smaller than the GT30. the only time that this correlation of trends size relative to wheel size is consistent, is one looking at the T series of turbochargers. 50, 57, 60 trim turbochargers all use the same size exducer measurement. The difference in overall power potential between the three exactly about 40 hp or so. So simply looking at trim, is not the best way to try and pick out what turbochargers the best one for you. It's simply part of a measurement.
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

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Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
that's because print is not the same as A/R.term refers to the distance difference between the inducer or exducer of a compressor or turbine wheel. it is based on the equation listed here:

Click the image to open in full size.

Simply having a larger trim does not necessarily mean that the Turbo is larger overall. For example, A GT40 variant may have a smaller trim wheel than A GT30R that has a 56 trim wheel. That does not mean that the GT40 is actually smaller than the GT30. the only time that this correlation of trends size relative to wheel size is consistent, is one looking at the T series of turbochargers. 50, 57, 60 trim turbochargers all use the same size exducer measurement. The difference in overall power potential between the three exactly about 40 hp or so. So simply looking at trim, is not the best way to try and pick out what turbochargers the best one for you. It's simply part of a measurement.
I understand the Equation, I sort of understand A/R as well. Like A/R pretty much describes the powerband with in which the turbo begins to spool and when it ends at that destined RPM Range. What I meant to ask like ... what is the point of Trim ? Is there a point to what the Inducer does and what the Exducer does like how does this compare to getting power, when to get power, or what ?
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

Quote:
Originally Posted by noboostedEGo View Post
a high rod/stroke ratio means a long rod with smaller stroke. but just leave it at that, there's too much that's tied to it for it to be a meaningful attribute.

http://www.rx7club.com/printthread.php?t=345518 (discussion on trim) read a few posts down.
Thanks dude.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

very...

look at the sig...

mine is daily driven..
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

^I hate you! >_<
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

Okay, normally when people go LS/Vtec boost ... I was reading up on the b18 bottom ends that the stock rod length is still the same, and the displacement is increased using a larger crank. Now this will lower R/S which is bad for reliability. What would be better for boost reliability ? to get shorter rods or longer rods ?
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: How to build a reliable ls/vtec Turbo for 250-350whp

seriously dude ditch the r/s bullshit, don't even worry about it. people spin 95mm cranks 10k+ (race engines of course), point being that you don't need to worry about a dinky 89mm FACTORY HONDA crank giving you reliability issues due to r/s. SERIOUSLY.
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