flyingduck04

I know that this subject has been covered before, and i have been searching and reading for the past two days but i still cant decide what i am going to do. I have a 00 civic Si with the stock B16 in it. The bottom end is stock and will hopefully remain that way for another year or so.
The setup that i am going to run
Stock b16
Rc 550 Injectors
Hondata S300
PeakBoost or Afi Manifold
2.5" exhaust
and the other necessities

My problem is that i have heard good arguments about both turbos and still dont know enough to really understand what i am looking for. My goals are anywhere from 275-300 reliable hp, this is a daily driver that occasionally sees some trips to the drag strip. I am looking for a decently quick spooling turbo and one that will pull hard through the rpm range.
The two turbos that i am looking at is a t3/t4 with a 57 trim/ .48 a/r housing, or a GT28RS .82 a/r T3 any help is appreciated.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

the 57 trim would be way to big for your goals. if budget allows i would get the gt28rs with a .63 A/R t3 hot side.

if not then the 50 trim with a .48 A/R would be the better of the t3/t04e series turbos.

heres some sample dyno charts from 2 stock b16's, gt28rs and the 50 trim i suggested.

http://www.synapseturbo.com/im...o.JPG

http://www.synapseturbo.com/im...o.JPG

flyingduck04

awesome man thanks for the dyno charts those help alot, yet the biggest thing is still the budget. I will have to figure out which one will be inside my price range. Thanks alot man.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

no problem if you check out our website we have boost pressure plots on both turbos as well.

http://www.synapseturbo.com

fmfkid250

I personally wouldent put a GT28 on any B series motor no matter what...

Thats just me though. I am always about putting a turbo that is to big for your Goals...

Hell it is better for your motor!

flyingduck04

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmfkid250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally wouldent put a GT28 on any B series motor no matter what...

Thats just me though. I am always about putting a turbo that is to big for your Goals...

Hell it is better for your motor!</TD></TR></TABLE>

So basically just go ahead and slap a super 60 on there? I want a turbo that wont have a whole crap load of lag and will be a a good responsive STREET turbo, that is where i do 95% of my driving, I maybe go to the track 1 maybe twice every two months.

boostincoupe

Look into the GT3255E. It's basically a more efficient version of the 57-trim.

Contact TheShodan for details and a sick-*** deal.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

i think the gt3255e is too big for him, from what ive seen they spool about the same as a 57trim. there is a smaller one though isnt there, the gt3251e?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're right mike. this is where I would recommend the GT3251 moreso than the GT3255E for his goals. I may recommend a slightly larger compressor wheel with more room to work with, in case he decides to build his motor in the future. The GT3251 is good to about 380whp, then that's about it.. I'll talk with him now..

flyingduck04

wow this got even more complicated fast.

fmfkid250

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyingduck04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow this got even more complicated fast. </TD></TR></TABLE>

heres the deal with the gt28, Yea it will hit full boost by 4200 rpm...but it still not going to be fast untill you get into the RPM's anyway,

I acually Drive a Stock LS DD for 3 years with a to4S thats a 61mm turbo, full boost by 5200rpm and i can drive around all day out of boost.

flyingduck04

word, and i totally understand that. I live in a small sized town that has more red lights than cars at some points, so i am usually shifting around 3k or lower and always at a stop light or what not. I am still between the gt28r and not the gt32 what is the difference between the ball bearing and the journal bearing?

fmfkid250

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyingduck04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">word, and i totally understand that. I live in a small sized town that has more red lights than cars at some points, so i am usually shifting around 3k or lower and always at a stop light or what not. I am still between the gt28r and not the gt32 what is the difference between the ball bearing and the journal bearing? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ball bearing turbos can Generally make more power, Because they can handle the Abuse( 25-30psi all day) also with a ball bearing turbo they say on average a 400rpm Spool difference. what is the GT32?

even with a bigger size turbo, if you launch the car there is no time it takes to spool a slightly bigger turbo...

Is it worth the BB option? for 300whp i would say it is not worth the extra money

flyingduck04

GT3251

0morgan@synapse motorsport

any dyno charts out there of the gt3251?

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmfkid250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

heres the deal with the gt28, Yea it will hit full boost by 4200 rpm

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i hope to god its faster than that!! My GT3255b that The Shodan built me hits full boost by 3800 rpm and is still capable of making a good amount of power....on 10psi i made 315/216. I dont have a graph for the GT3251, but here's my GT3255b



Another thing to consider if you're on the fence is that the BB turbo is going to cost $500 more than the non-BB. That money could be used to get a set of ITR cams, a better IM, or a bunch of other stuff....also remember that BB CHRAs are not rebuildable. If you're not going to get the use out of it, i dont think its worth the extra $$

0morgan@synapse motorsport

can we see a pressure plot from your dyno runs of you car seeing 10psi at 3800rpms.

ghostskinner

how bad would the lag be on a 57 trim with a .63 A/R backhousing on a built b16 with jdm type r cams. im looking for a max of 400whp

fmfkid250

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike@synapse motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can we see a pressure plot from your dyno runs of you car seeing 10psi at 3800rpms.</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2

You where still building boost untill 5200RPM

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmfkid250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

X2

You where still building boost untill 5200RPM</TD></TR></TABLE>

on the dyno it was building boost at 4900, but i can tell you from driving it and watching the guage in my car that it builds boost on the street at 3800rpm

fmfkid250

weird

flyingduck04

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmfkid250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ball bearing turbos can Generally make more power, Because they can handle the Abuse( 25-30psi all day) also with a ball bearing turbo they say on average a 400rpm Spool difference. what is the GT32?

even with a bigger size turbo, if you launch the car there is no time it takes to spool a slightly bigger turbo...

Is it worth the BB option? for 300whp i would say it is not worth the extra money</TD></TR></TABLE>


After sitting down and talking with my tuner as well as some other turbo hondas in my home town, i am just going to rock the t3/t4 for now until i can build the motor and really crank up the boost. Thanks for all the post and pm's that you guys have sent and responded to.

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmfkid250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally wouldent put a GT28 on any B series motor no matter what...

Thats just me though. I am always about putting a turbo that is to big for your Goals...

Hell it is better for your motor!</TD></TR></TABLE>
so the 53.1mm inducer 475hp gt2871r is too small?

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

on the dyno it was building boost at 4900, but i can tell you from driving it and watching the guage in my car that it builds boost on the street at 3800rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>

let me guess in fifth gear?

when i talk about building boost i always refer to on the dyno with a pressure plot, some proof and data to compare.

on our dyno a gt3076r builds 10psi by 4400 on a 1.8L. slightly faster than it takes a 57 trim to build 10psi(~4500-4600). and i can assure you on the street in fifth gear its sooner but thats irrelevant. both of these examples im quickly looking at are setup for peak power also not for low end power like your setup is optimized for.

so now that we are talking apples and apples here, your turbo spools slower than a 57 trim and the gt3076r. so unless it can miraculously make more more peak power than 500whp it doesnt come close to the performance of a legit GT series turbocharger. you spent the extra money for the gt3255b to get worse performance than a regular 57 trim.

itr cams(which dont typically improve spool time), a better intake manifold, and whatver else you want to spend your money on, cannot pick up the difference of powerband the gt series turbos make.

Im not trying to be a dick schister and i know im coming off that way, but whenever anyone is intersted in a GT series turbo you are always insinuating that they are a bandwagon scam and not worth the money.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so the 53.1mm inducer 475hp gt2871r is too small? </TD></TR></TABLE>

way too small, everyone knows the gt4294 comes with the 70.3mm compressor optimized for the factory b16. its a great matchup.