f22
05-14-2014, 06:11 PM
#2
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Re: f22
What kind of "twin scroll" turbo? from your post you make it sound like it's an OEM turbo setup which it most definitely is not.
we can't tell you if anything is good or not because you haven't given us a power goal you want, what fuel will be used, and we don't know what the purpose of the car is nor what chassis we are even talking about here.
also without a complete parts list for your build, whether it's parts you already have or are thinking about buying we can't help you either...
so post the chassis, power you want to make, fuel being used, a complete parts list for the engine, turbo setup, transmission/clutch, as well as the fuel system, ignition system, what kind I'd engine management (chipped ecu, piggyback ecu, full standalone, etc) and then we can tell you if what you want to do will work.
we can't tell you if anything is good or not because you haven't given us a power goal you want, what fuel will be used, and we don't know what the purpose of the car is nor what chassis we are even talking about here.
also without a complete parts list for your build, whether it's parts you already have or are thinking about buying we can't help you either...
so post the chassis, power you want to make, fuel being used, a complete parts list for the engine, turbo setup, transmission/clutch, as well as the fuel system, ignition system, what kind I'd engine management (chipped ecu, piggyback ecu, full standalone, etc) and then we can tell you if what you want to do will work.
05-14-2014, 06:38 PM
#3
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Re: f22
The f22a1, while non vtec, still has an amazing cylinder head.. completely stock the a1 cylinder head flows more than what many hand ported b16 vtec heads do.
regardless of f20b, f22 or f23 there isn't a lot of aftermarket support. delta makes cam regrinds for the a1 head for under 100 dollars (3 different cam profiles), k series forged pistons will drop in once you bore the block to 86mm (requires forged rods obviously).
bisimoto also makes cams for the full range of f series motors. he also has forged rods (only readily available "shelf" rod I know of for f series) as well as forged pistons, headstuds, springs/retainers, valves, etc.
most companies have forged pistons for the f series but they are custom made on an as ordered basis. doing a 1mm overbore from 85mm to 86mm (assuming you don't have frm sleeves) allows you to use any k series forged piston which are readily available on the shelf, no wait time.
many companies offer lighter flywheels and stronger clutches (i prefer competition clutch). the k series rbc intake manifold is a direct replacement for the OEM f series unit (at least on the f22a1 head)
so either way the aftermarket support is minimal and given that aftermarket f series parts aren't high volume sellers they will normally cost more than parts for more popular motors like the b, d, h, and k series... especially when most replace the f series motor with an h22 or h23 (personally I'm swapping a JDM F20B into my 1990 accord) so don't expect this project to be as cheap as say a b series build.
also if you're dealing with a motor swap from an importer be sure that the importer is reputable and that the motors they offer are quality, good condition motors. ask for detail photos before purchasing, that way you can spot any potential leaks, damaged areas, or broken sensors, and to be sure everything is included that they say it will ship with.
also ask for a compression test video, making sure they show the block code of the motor (and it matches the one you are buying) and that they properly perform the test. I would ask for a leakdown test but it's doubtful they'll do it.
the last thing you want is to have a motor show up that's a total piece of **** with missing parts, broken sensors, cut harness, bad ecu, leaks, burns oil, transmission is bad, etc. I've had friends who have had nightmare situations with receiving **** motors from importers.
if you get the motor and it's in good shape I would suggest new distributor cap, distributor drive gear o-ring, rotor, spark plugs, and wires. new water pump, new accessory belts (ps, alt, ac) as well as a new timing belt and tensioner. A new oil pan gasket, rear main seal, and front main seal is also something I would consider mandatory.
since you are going to be turbocharging the motor it would be smart to go on ahead and put ARP headstuds and a new OEM headgasket in place as well. you never know how long the motor has been sitting out if the car, what kind of life the engine had and it's much easier to remove any doubt and replace all of this while the motor is out of the car. you don't want to get the engine in and running only to discover that the rear main leaks or the water pump is bad, etc.
I personally consider replacing all of the above usual components mandatory when I'm doing a motor swap with an imported motor. it's what I've always done with customer cars and it's what I do with my personal builds. also go on ahead and check the valve lash before install (skip this if you are pulling the head for studs and/or installing an aftermarket cam and valve springs and retainers as you'll have to set the lash anyways)
the most important thing to do before you start doing anything, and i do mean anything (no buying parts, etc) until you establish a reasonable budget based off of your research of parts/services you will have done. you should also have a little extra money over and above your planned budget just in case you rub into an issue like maybe a sensor is bad or if you forgot something you needed at first.
regardless of f20b, f22 or f23 there isn't a lot of aftermarket support. delta makes cam regrinds for the a1 head for under 100 dollars (3 different cam profiles), k series forged pistons will drop in once you bore the block to 86mm (requires forged rods obviously).
bisimoto also makes cams for the full range of f series motors. he also has forged rods (only readily available "shelf" rod I know of for f series) as well as forged pistons, headstuds, springs/retainers, valves, etc.
most companies have forged pistons for the f series but they are custom made on an as ordered basis. doing a 1mm overbore from 85mm to 86mm (assuming you don't have frm sleeves) allows you to use any k series forged piston which are readily available on the shelf, no wait time.
many companies offer lighter flywheels and stronger clutches (i prefer competition clutch). the k series rbc intake manifold is a direct replacement for the OEM f series unit (at least on the f22a1 head)
so either way the aftermarket support is minimal and given that aftermarket f series parts aren't high volume sellers they will normally cost more than parts for more popular motors like the b, d, h, and k series... especially when most replace the f series motor with an h22 or h23 (personally I'm swapping a JDM F20B into my 1990 accord) so don't expect this project to be as cheap as say a b series build.
also if you're dealing with a motor swap from an importer be sure that the importer is reputable and that the motors they offer are quality, good condition motors. ask for detail photos before purchasing, that way you can spot any potential leaks, damaged areas, or broken sensors, and to be sure everything is included that they say it will ship with.
also ask for a compression test video, making sure they show the block code of the motor (and it matches the one you are buying) and that they properly perform the test. I would ask for a leakdown test but it's doubtful they'll do it.
the last thing you want is to have a motor show up that's a total piece of **** with missing parts, broken sensors, cut harness, bad ecu, leaks, burns oil, transmission is bad, etc. I've had friends who have had nightmare situations with receiving **** motors from importers.
if you get the motor and it's in good shape I would suggest new distributor cap, distributor drive gear o-ring, rotor, spark plugs, and wires. new water pump, new accessory belts (ps, alt, ac) as well as a new timing belt and tensioner. A new oil pan gasket, rear main seal, and front main seal is also something I would consider mandatory.
since you are going to be turbocharging the motor it would be smart to go on ahead and put ARP headstuds and a new OEM headgasket in place as well. you never know how long the motor has been sitting out if the car, what kind of life the engine had and it's much easier to remove any doubt and replace all of this while the motor is out of the car. you don't want to get the engine in and running only to discover that the rear main leaks or the water pump is bad, etc.
I personally consider replacing all of the above usual components mandatory when I'm doing a motor swap with an imported motor. it's what I've always done with customer cars and it's what I do with my personal builds. also go on ahead and check the valve lash before install (skip this if you are pulling the head for studs and/or installing an aftermarket cam and valve springs and retainers as you'll have to set the lash anyways)
the most important thing to do before you start doing anything, and i do mean anything (no buying parts, etc) until you establish a reasonable budget based off of your research of parts/services you will have done. you should also have a little extra money over and above your planned budget just in case you rub into an issue like maybe a sensor is bad or if you forgot something you needed at first.
05-15-2014, 04:38 PM
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Re: f22
1 more thing friend don't laugh i am new to the honda scene i normally do small block chevy. what is a k motor. and what is the most hp i can do on a dailey driver
Last edited by marvin75; 05-15-2014 at 04:54 PM.
05-15-2014, 07:49 PM
#6
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Re: f22
You can make as much horsepower as your wallet can make.
people are daily driving 700+hp Hondas on e85, even more if you can afford race gas.
With a totally stock bottom end you can't make more than 300ish on an f series (i think that's right)
people have made insane numbers on stock internal k20/k24 motors but those are costly to source and swap into a car. a typical mostly stock, properly running k swap will cost about as much as a built turbo b series.
people are daily driving 700+hp Hondas on e85, even more if you can afford race gas.
With a totally stock bottom end you can't make more than 300ish on an f series (i think that's right)
people have made insane numbers on stock internal k20/k24 motors but those are costly to source and swap into a car. a typical mostly stock, properly running k swap will cost about as much as a built turbo b series.
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