descartesfool

I just installed an Endyn catch can crankcase breather kit on my B18C5 turbo engine. On a road race track first time out at 5.8 psi for an initial shakedown, after about four 30 minute track sessions (equivalent to about 200 full power dyno pulls I figure), I had a lot of oil that had spewed out behind the engine from the pleated filter on top of the catch can. My setup is.

1. Can is set up near battery as high as possible so filter just barely clears the hood.
2. Z10 alu plug in old breather chamber hole.
3. No PCV valve and two 1/2" hoses run up from new ports on back of block to catch can ports.
4. Drain-back from bottom of can connected via 3/8" hose to T coupler into 1/2" breather hose nearest tranny.
5. Small filter on end of hose connected to stock valve cover nipple. System all open to air, with no connections to intake.

I called Larry to get ideas and he said to check that drain-back hose was going down all the way. I checked and it is going steadily down from bottom of can to T and then into port on block. My setup appears to be the exact recommended setup by Endyn. Larry also sugested that on some big 1000 HP engines (mine is 300 WHP) that they forget about the T and just run the drainback into a fitting tapped into the plug where the breather chamber was. He also said they only really recommend the two big hoses from the front of the valve cover to a catch can for really high reving engines to 10,000 RPM. My redline is 8500 RPM, and I was mostly shifting at 8000 RPM.

I need some help because it is making a mess of the back of the engine compartment and I am worried about oil fires should too much get on the really hot stuff. I searched and read a ton of catch can threads, but I am not sure what to do.

tony1

http://www.t1raceparts.com/pro...n.htm

DfwBB6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> http://www.t1raceparts.com/pro...n.htm </TD></TR></TABLE>

descartesfool

That is a nice looking catch can, but I don't have room for it since my battery hasn't been re-located yet. I would appreciate help on getting the Endyn setup I just paid for and instaled working if at all posible.

I am not sure how to diagnose the problem in the garage, since this only happens on a road race track with a lot of hard accelerating and braking. Is the can filling with oil and not draining fast enough, or is it oil vapor in the blow-by gases just being pushed out the filter? I read that Z10 guys prefer not to use port near alternator to reduce oil spewing issues. That is easy to do by just disconecting that hose and plugging it, but since I won't know if it works until I go back to the track, I would like some ideas on a way that might fix it before I go again. I saw in some threads that people had put a rag around the filter on top of the Endyn can, but that is not an option on a road race car. I could add ports to the valve cover and an extra catch can, but if it won't solve the problem that would be a waste.

tony1

I went around the block with my Endyn setup, half a year of racing trying different things and every time ending up with a clean coat of oil on everything in my engine bay. That's what led me to develop my can. You can keep messing with yours and trying new things, like i said, i did it for half a year. Or you can cut your losses and get something that works.

hybrid_KJ

I'd definitely try re-routing the drain back line to where the freeze plug is before giving up on the can.

The way I built mine is I made my own can out of a 3" aluminum tube, 6" long so it is similar size to the endyn can. I re-used the oem breater tank and welded a 1/2" barb fitting to the top of the oem breather and ran that to the catch can. I welded another 3/8" fitting near the bottom of the oem breather and ran that as the drain for the catch can. On the drivers side of the block I used the same fitting as the endyn setup and ran that to the other 1/2" connection on the can. The valve cover has a simple breather filter attached.

I've had no overflowing incidents at all, horsepower is only around 350 right now but it is working well. I think the extra volume of the oem breather has helped prevent overflowing.

TurboEM1

iTrader: (1)

3. No PCV valve and two 1/2" hoses run up from new ports on back of block to catch can ports.

What nipple fitting did you get to for the back of the block for the hose? I use the OEM honda ones and they take a 5/8" hose. Not sure if it makes a difference though.

4. Drain-back from bottom of can connected via 3/8" hose to T coupler into 1/2" breather hose nearest tranny.

Get rid of the drain back. It is useless. Just set it up so the two fittings in the back of the block go to 1/2" hoses and go into the catch can near the top. Thats it. No drain or T going into the 2 lines or whatever crap they tell you to do. The whole endyn drain set up is whack and is causing overflow.

TurboEM1

iTrader: (1)

Heres the parts I used and the write up I did on my set up.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1674798

descartesfool

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_KJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd definitely try re-routing the drain back line to where the freeze plug is before giving up on the can.

The way I built mine is I made my own can out of a 3" aluminum tube, 6" long so it is similar size to the endyn can. I re-used the oem breater tank and welded a 1/2" barb fitting to the top of the oem breather and ran that to the catch can. I welded another 3/8" fitting near the bottom of the oem breather and ran that as the drain for the catch can. On the drivers side of the block I used the same fitting as the endyn setup and ran that to the other 1/2" connection on the can. The valve cover has a simple breather filter attached.

I've had no overflowing incidents at all, horsepower is only around 350 right now but it is working well. I think the extra volume of the oem breather has helped prevent overflowing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have been wondering about doing exactly that since I first took off the stock breather chamber and trying to figure out why people plug that hole and get rid of the OEM breather chamber. It seems perfect for both drain-back and to let the crankase pressure out. The hole in the block is a very large hole compared to the holes in the fittings of the Endyn or Z10 setups, so there must be much less resitance to blow-by gas flow. The hose on top to the stock PCV valve is small, but you have improved that with the 1/2" fitting.

Couple of questions:
Who knows why the kits get rid of the stock OEM breather box?
What is the purpose of the second small hose from the top of the OEM can to the head that you plug with the Endyn kit?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I went around the block with my Endyn setup, half a year of racing trying different things and every time ending up with a clean coat of oil on everything in my engine bay. That's what led me to develop my can. You can keep messing with yours and trying new things, like i said, i did it for half a year. Or you can cut your losses and get something that works.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I appreciate your experience and may end up doing things your way, but I want to at least try to improve my Endyn setup if I can. Again my road-racing application might make me give up on the Endyn setup faster than I think! But I've only got 300 WHP at 11 psi of boost as that is the most I can run on track without overheating with a full width double thickness rad and a 25 row Mocal oil cooler, so I think I am not suffering from ultra high blow-by due to very high boost. Engine pulls 22-23 in. w.g. at idle and 28 in. w.g. with closed throttle at high RPM, so it is pumping well. I had to put in the stiffest BOV spring Tial makes. It just could be all the oil sloshing up the block internals while on track causing my issues. I would still like to know if it is too much pressure in crankcase causing it to spew out or too much oil in catch tank.

0B R Fittings

iTrader: (3)

Your best option would be to tap the valve cover with -10 aluminum bungs and run that to the catch can. Then for the drain back back just run a line from the bottom of the can to the back block port.

The stock baffles on the valve cover will prevent all the oil from puking out. Good luck

SOUNDEFFECTS

Use Tony's can...I went through the same trouble as Tony did years ago and basically just gave up. I always had oil no matter what, I use to drain the can often as it had a quick release ball valve on the bottom. I would have killed for Tony's can....it just didn't exist back then.

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOUNDEFFECTS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use Tony's can...I went through the same trouble as Tony did years ago and basically just gave up. I always had oil no matter what, I use to drain the can often as it had a quick release ball valve on the bottom. I would have killed for Tony's can....it just didn't exist back then. </TD></TR></TABLE>


You should've just ran 8 Endyn catch cans with 16 bungs off the valve cover lol

qfast817

my endyn catch can is fine, i used a longer hose on the return line

Arturbo

I too used to have that can you speak of and it would fil up with oil and be all over my engine bay. I tried everything too and the only thing that fixed my problem was the T1 Race Development Can. Go ahead and try to make it work but like me you will end up with the T1 catch can. It may be a lot more than the can you purchased but in the end you get what you paid for.

People who say they usually dont have a problem are those who just dyno'd their car and dont run it at the track. On the dyno we never had any problems, but on the track it was another story. So becareful when people say "I dont have any problems".

art

descartesfool

OK, I will take all the good advice and get Tony's can and install it and re-locate the battery over the winter. Most people who don't road race have no idea how much load that puts on an engine and all its systems, so I know that if someone tells me they have no problem with a given setup on the street or with the odd drag race or dyno pull, that means nothing to me. I worked with Geoff at Full-Race for two years and he built me 2 complete setups to get a road racing reliable system. He and I gave up on his systems after countless breakdowns and I made everything myself with V-bands and TIG welding and all I ended up using from Full-Race was their manifold. Geoff just had no experience with road racing issues.

But for a quick fix before I put the car to sleep for the winter, what does this idea sound like. Take out the Z10 alu plug and put back the OEM breather can. Put two NPT to 1/2" hose fittings at the top of the OEM can and connect two hoses from there to the catch can. Return the drain-back from the bottom of the Endyn can with a single 1/2" hose and no T to the Endyn block fitting near the trannny. Block off the Endyn block fitting near the alternator as Z10 guys say that port puts out too much oil. My thinking is I get the OEM drain-back feature from the OEM can, and then the two new 1/2" fittings on top don't have as much oil in the blow-by gases due to the OEM can's baffling, so I might get less than I have now going to the catch can. Then the drain back is a bigger diameter hose from the bottom of the Endyn can (which hopefully has less oil now) and it drains back better because there is no T. It still drains back to the same port it did before.

I had a look at my OEM breather can and there are two internal baffles to catch oil before gases go out the top. Taking a feed from the top of that would seem to be a better place than just connecting to the Endyn block ports since they are almost unbaffled and thus might have a lot more oil coming out of them. Am I missing something with my idea about the use of the OEM breather?

If that makes any sense for crankcase venting, what can I do temporarily and cheaply for the valve cover breathing? Do people weld AN fittings to valve cover or thread in NPT fittings, but threading might mess up the valve cover paint a whole lot less? I can do either. Do front ports first, then connect to temporary catch can?

y7turbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


You should've just ran 8 Endyn catch cans with 16 bungs off the valve cover lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

hell who needs a valve cover?

D@nnY

youll notice also the endyn kit is supplied with rubber hoses that leak oil everywhere...big pain in the ***

descartesfool

I replaced all the brass multi-barbed fittings supplied with the Endyn kit with Earl's aluminum single barb to NPT fittings similar to all the single barb fittings Honda uses everywhere.




No such thing as those super PITA multi-barb fittings anywhere on a Honda, as those things make hose removal virtually impossible and the joints often leak. My Earl's fittings are not leaking, and I use Zebra type clamps from Wurth that don't cut into the hoses. I think the only purpose of muli-barb fittings is to be able to push a hose on and not ever have it come off without cutting it off.

DaveF

love all the info

Breather Cans

When plumbing in a breather can, to breath the engine, you should use at least a - 12 AN hose. The hose should run slightly up hill to the can so that any oil reaching the hose can run back down the hose to the tank. Be sure that the hose does not have any dips where oil can accumalate.

Remember- . If the breather hose is too small, the velocity of the air will increase over what it would be with a larger hose. This increase in velocity will tend to carry more oil droplets to the breather can. This is why a larger hose is better.

http://www.petersonfluidsystems.com


Modified by DaveF at 8:50 AM 10/5/2007

descartesfool

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...When plumbing in a breather can, to breath the engine, you should use at least a - 12 AN hose. The hose should run slightly up hill to the can so that any oil reaching the hose can run back down the hose to the tank. Be sure that the hose does not have any dips where oil can accumalate.

Remember- . If the breather hose is too small, the velocity of the air will increase over what it would be with a larger hose. This increase in velocity will tend to carry more oil droplets to the breather can. This is why a larger hose is better.

Modified by DaveF at 8:50 AM 10/5/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just what I was thinking. And that is why I have been wondering why people ditch the OEM black box and plug the largest vent hole in the block. The hole is about 34 mm and the OEM tube that goes into it has an internal diameter of about 32mm which makes for an area of 1.25 in2. Putting two 1/2" hoses off the side of the block makes for an area of 2x0.20 = 0.40 in2, or less than 1/3 of the original area. Putting two AN-12 hoses which are 0.69" I.D. (as per Earl's) gives 2x0.37 = 0.75 in2 which is almost twice what you get from 2 1/2" hoses but still only 60% of the available area from the OEM breather can hole.

So why does everyone ditch the OEM can and plug that big hole to use two much smaller hoses off the side of the block and also lose the can's internal baffling?

DaveF

foward motion, leaves all of the oil in the head to be flung against the backside, and the majority drains in the rear holes.....

thus the reason for pluggin that hole shut, and using the top most/ foward most spot on the engine. the top front of the valvecover, which is conviently baffled from honda (at least b series vtec.)

descartesfool

Unfortunately not much room on the front of the valve cover with my Full-Race manifold to clear some big hoses. On a road race car it's tough to keep all the exhaust parts from heating up any other parts, and I can just see the hoses on the front of the valve cover getting cooked by the manifold over a few half-hour sessions. Geoff had mine ceramic coated by HPC to try and keep the engine bay heat down, but the coating all flaked off as even HPC didn't seem to understand the rigors of road racing and wouldn't support their product or offer a refund, even though Geoff tried directly with them.
Have a look:



For now I'm going to try and re-install the OEM black box this weekend with two 1/2" fittings off the top and route them to the Endyn can instead of the two lines off the back of the block. Not sure if I'll add another fitting to the box for drain-back from the bottom of the can or try to drain back into one of the fittings on the side of the block. I have a dyno tune day on Tuesday but I'm not back at the track until Oct 18 th, so I won't really know if I'll need to clean my engine bay again. By the way, Dunk engine degreaser spray can and a water hose did a great and rather painless job of cleaning all the oily mess off the back of the engine bay. I just don't want to be doing that every time I go out to the track.


Modified by descartesfool at 1:14 PM 10/6/2007

hybrid_KJ

Here us a link to some pics I took on how I modded to oem breather to work with my catch can. Has not leaked at the track or on the dyno.

http://www.tamparacing.com/for....html

descartesfool

Looks about like I was going to do,except I thought about putting two hoses off the top of the can. What is the purpose of the short hose from the OEM breather can? What does it vent and why does it get closed off?

hondaapi

The small hose comes from the same area where the additional fittings go into. It leads some of the crankcasepressure into the black box.