beyer

hi there .....


don’t know anywhere else to post this topic, so ill try here .....


imp running, a Toyota 3sgte/5sfe 2,0l engine producing " now " 620hp at 1,5 bar of boost ( next year making 8-900 hp (its made for it )

here are the spec s on engine internals:

oem 5sfe iron block
oem crank , balanced and knife edged.....
spec girdle....
Pauter spec made rods with custom620 bolts
oem Toyota bearings , both crank and rods
CP spec made pistons ....
oem Toyota oil pump ( shims for high pressure )4bar idle - 6 bar 9000rpm

running with Valvoline VR1 Race oil

the problems is:

I have made like 25 -40 passes + dyno with this engine , and are now making it ready for next season ( we don’t run in winter times here in Denmark ) so are de assembling the engine to take a look and if necessary give it some new parts , but when I got to the rod bearing , I thin the looks quite funny !
they are not destroyed , and both rods and crank is looking superb , but its like there are small flakes coming of the bearing ...... do any one got at clue what’s doing this !!!!!?????

my clearings/tolerances are (Toyota oem oil clearings - 0,024mm - 0,055mm )

mine 0,037-0,045mm

got any ideas ??????? (pic is the upper ones )


and another questions:

do any of you drag guys having problems with freeze plugs falling out ( there are not high pressure in the cooling system) , it’s like some vibrations are making them to fall off , especially one between the two of the big bolts for gearbox/engine .... and its only pops out when I make burn out I 3 gear ( rev 8000rpm with 2bar boost , and lay it down in 3 gear in water , then pulls it out the track , and water is laying on the track all the way down to the start of the burn out ......

I have even tried to make like 4 weld spots to secure it , but it don’t hold ...

Beyer....

beyer

bump

The sweed

The bearings does that when they are overloaded.. It is the material in the top layer that cracks and comes loose.. I think there is a chart on clevittes site on different bearing situations that are pretty good.. If you put in the same type of bearings it will happen again.. The only sulotion is to change bearing pretty often.. You need harder bearings or larger bearingarea that the oilfilm can work against.. One way of increas that is by choose bearings that don´t have the wholes in them.. The holes acts as a stripe when the engine rotates and the oilfilm will not have a solid surfice to distribuate the load to in that area.. I don´t know if the acl race series are harder bearings that can take more load but "race" should indicate that they are.

RPM is what kills bearings.. If you lower your red line it will increase your bearing life. Power is not that big of afactor.

If the bearings are loaded diffently say by the big end flexing during high engine loads and rpm It is my personal theory that it could kill the bearing too.. That is why I think the same thing happend too one of the 600hp engines I have built with cheap oöd version of eagle rods..

Transpoquick

Try a Toyota site, I can tell you one thing though, welding cast Iron.....?, Don't work.
And they looked cooked (overheated).
And your description of the Level of boost 1,5 bar? IDK 1bar to 5bar?, if your running 1bar(14.5psi), impressive, 2bar Damm, 3bar you should be able to answer this yourself anything more your confused, or you should be building spaceships in your backyard.
Good luck with it!.
BTW 72.5 psi or 5 bar will do that.

beyer

i have now talked to bill Mcknight from Clevite , and he also said it is Fatiuqe overload on the rod bearings .....

he suggestet me to use the clevite CB1780H to a 2,2l h-series , they also fits ok , and oil clearance says now 0,030mm ( super ) but - but they are 2,2 mm smaller sideways than my oem toyota !!!!! do any one have experince with these bearings doing 800 - 900hp on honda engines ?????????????????????????????
my only other solution is going with oem toyota bearings again , though i can go one step narrower on the oil clearance ( now 0,040mm - next step 0,035mm ) race bearing from both acl , clevite and king are too loose in the oil clearence to a 3SGTE engine with my crank and my PAUTER rods ....


regarding freeze plugs .... i do know that welding cast iron is nah nah !!!! but need to try .... , i think its the vibrations between the gearbox and engine that shakes the one plug loose, i have now made some plates to bolt on each plug....

The sweed

It is more comen to thread a plug instead of the press fit.. But hope your sulotion works too..

The wider bearing the better in drag racing.. To a point of course.. The load is spread over a larger area wich will be easyer for the bearing. As I said before.. Try to find a harder bearing that do not have the wholes in them. That is the best sulotion. If you dont need the wholes to shot oil under your piston that is.. I would not go with a bearing that is not as wide.. Sure you can try.. But 2 bearings that is the same accept the with and the smaller one will have the fatiuqe overload signs first and the wholes will make those signs even earlyer. It is not easy to estimate how wide it needs to be if the bearings is harder.. Just make sure to take one of those red hotdogs in Denmark and check your bearings every know and than.. ha ha.. If a bearing looks like that and are run for a to long time it will evesualy spin in the rod and then size and break the rod and take the block and if you are unluckey your head out too.. Been there done that..
I have the same problem in a customers car and will try to get a more solid rod and try the acl race bearings I hope those are harder than the standard series.. The race series are only available with the wholes though. I have a theory of that the flex in the rods big end also helps to create those signs on the rod bearings..

I realy don´t think the 0.045 is too loose for a 8-900hp 4cyl engine.. I think they are on the edge on too tight though.. I have a friend with a 1300hp volvo engine and he is running as loos as 0,1 mm.. I have 0,075 in my own 600hp car and in several others too with no problems..

You need to deside on wich bearing to use and check them pretty often to determan the life span of them... When you have an estimae you can just have them changed when need to.. You can´t have stock bearing life on a 900hp engine..

It also depends on the oil you are using.. Use a oil that don´t have alot of stuff for the winter etc.. Such as a 0-40 oil or 5-50 etc.. That will only make the oilfilm weaker and more stuff in it that are not of the parts that keeps the oil film together.. Lots of long chains of oil molecules is whats makes the oil film strong. Putting addetives in the oil makes the muleculechains longer apart from eachother and the oilfilm weaker.. Use a racing oil like 20w 50 or evan a stright 50 oil if it is a pure drag car.. I have used LE enginering stright 50 oil with succes.. A straight 50 oil is not a good ide on too tight bearing clearances though and it is more important to heat the engine more thoroughly before full load..

Hope the spelling is allright.. I am getting pretty drunk by now.. Friday night over here in Sweden.. My girlfriend is wining know.. got to go ha ha

blaze the chemi

In most countries outside the standard rule people use the comma instead of a period. i.e. 2.33 = 2,33

So he is boosting 1.5bar or about 22psi.

This thread is great! We got a drunk swed and a danish guy working on a toyota in a Honda website.

The sweed

ha ha ha ah ah a ha LMAO!!!!!


Yep that´s ritght sir... Cheers... ha ha

beyer

" the sweed " got hangovers today !!!?????

the reason im working in this forum is because , not so many toyota builders are running 8-900hp on there 2.0l engines ..... but alot of hondas does ....... and it`s a damn good site ..... alot of infos, ...........................................

at the moment im running Valvoline VR1 20-50 racing oil .... how come that every one else im talking too is saying to make tighter clearances , and the sweed says the complete opposite ??????? i have now ordered some oem bearings with tolerances (0,039mm ( 0.006mm tighter than before )) in hope of higher oil pressure at the bearing.. i have search for a long time now but can`t seem to find any stronger bearings with the right clearance
so ill try to run a few dunopulls, and a few on the track , to see the outcome .....

alterdcreations

try a different oil.

JDogg

call up the guys at paradise racing.. they do some pretty crazy mess w/the 4cylinder toyota motors.

also.. can you get some pics of the back side of the bearing?

The sweed

Ha ha.. No big hangovers.. But I seem to spell pretty good drunk ha ha..

The looser clearance helps the oil flow in the bearing and that is good for cooling.. I have never heard of somone that says to go with tighter clearance on a 900hp 4cyl.. I would feel good with a clearance up to 0.1mm on an egninge running that power and probebly high rpm too.. I would not feel comfortable running tighter than 0,05mm. High outputs and high revs creates heat.. That is why I would recomend a looser clearance.. Just make sure to check your bearings every now and then to learn about how they work out for you.. An engine like that needs to have bearings replaced pritty often.. That is racing..

The sulotion to have the bearing to last longer is to find harder bearings and preferably do not have those holes in them.. If you cant find any.. just replace the bearings more often.. Lower your rpm will drasticly decrease rodbearing load but that is not something you would like I guess.. High horspower is not that big of a factor though. I don´t think there is any other sulotion..
To say that a not as wide bearings that is harder will work is not easy because at some point harder bearings and their smaller surfice area will be overloaded too. It is a balance between hardness and surfice area that mostly determance how much load they can take.. If all other factors like tempertures and clean oil, smooth bearing surfice etc is allright..