Aradin

So I have a 95 Accord, stock f22b1 with headstuds. T3/T4 setup @ 15-16psi. Car has been boosted for years on the same turbo setup.

I did a third gear rip earlier this week and afterwards it started smoking pretty heavily. Smelled like oil. Got it to my shop and it was still doing it. Got it up in the air and started taking things apart, etc. Noticed a bunch of oil in the compressor outlet/hot side pipe and oil had been pouring into the exhaust. I then started the car briefly to see what was going on and oil was spraying out of the compressor outlet and into the exhaust.

I immediately suspected the turbo, parked the car and ordered another one. Now today, I decided to remove the turbo and replace it with one that sort of worked(has a leaky exhaust seal) just to blow the car out and confirm my diagnosis. Well that didn't work. After it got warmed up a little it started doing the same thing. Blowing a ton of oil in the exhaust and out of the compressor outlet.

I'm stumped and pretty frustrated at this point. I did a compression test and it was 160 across the board. All the plugs looked decent. Car actually runs great. Just smokes like a chimney and uses an absurd amount of oil. I don't know what to think or where to start. I was considering just trying to start the car without a turbo on it to see if oil would come straight out of the exhaust manifold. When I looked inside the turbo manifold #1 & 4 cylinders looked dry, but 2 & 3 had oil residue near the exhaust valves. I didn't notice any oil on the actual valves themselves. The oil I saw, I thought, had come from the turbo whipping it around inside the turbine.

Some things to note:
-Oil lines are kink free, unobstructed, and I'm using the appropriate size restrictor.
-I just had the head redone a few months ago with new valve seals and such.
-As I said the compression test was fine. I didn't do a leakdown because I don't have a tester.



What do?

supersilverdc2

Seems very possible. If you have oil before the manifold coming from the block either rings/ring land ... Or valve stem seal/guides . I had the same issue on my turbo integra lsv. Leak down test showed cylinder#3 no good. Can you see oil on top of pistons when you look into cylinder ? Does it only smoke hot? What about cold?

xci_ed6

check the compression

Aradin

I haven't looked into the cylinders but I'll do that. It smokes pretty much all the time. Few seconds after startup and from then on until I shut it off. It filled my shop with a thick fog after running for about 3-4 minutes from a cold start. I'm gonna try a few other things tomorrow and see if I can't find the culprit. I ran out of time to work on it today.

I already did. and stated it in the original post.

xci_ed6

yeah, my bad, sorry!

No, though, I have no idea. It kinda seems like it must be on the intake valve side though. I'd at least pop the valve cover to look at the valve stem seals. You maybe could even see them by looking close through the spring coils

Aradin

I don't think it would be on the intake side since the plugs and all look good. Seems to be based around the exhaust. I'm going to get more in depth tomorrow and post again after I check some things.

supersilverdc2

intake side leaking = smoke on deceleration or engine braking

Smoke all the time usually means rings....

Aradin

I'm aware. Typically oil that is being burnt off in the combustion chamber is more blue. Whereas oil burning off inside the exhaust is more of a grayish color. Mine is more grayish. Even if it was a ringland, I don't understand why I would have oil pumping out of my compressor outlet on two different turbos that had no prior issues associated with that. I almost wonder if somehow the return bung on the oil pan is obstructed and causing oil to just gush out of the CHRA anywhere it can.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Oil from the intake side would burn off during combustion, you'd never see it out the exhaust and if the leak were that large the motor wouldn't run right.

It's more than likely valve stem seals on the exhaust side. Do a leakdown test.

There's no reason oil should be passing through the compressor cover if there's on the intake side connected to an oil source like the pcv, catch can. Etc. Only thing that would cause that is a compressor side seal failure.

Are you 100% positive that both turbos haven't failed

Aradin

It's not related to the motor. I did a cold compression test and checked all cylinders for signs of oil and there were none. Everything was perfect. I started the car with a turbo hooked up, but not connected to the turbo manifold. The motor did not smoke at all and there were no signs of oil coming out of manifold. All valves were dry. Ran perfect.

BUT as SOON as I mounted the turbo on the manifold it started spraying oil EVERYWHERE. Out of both sides of it. I tried it with both turbos. Completely remade the drain line. Check feed restrictor again and all that. Couldn't get it to stop doing it. I've been using the same oil line setup for years and never had an issue.

I have a .63 AR GT30 on the way and I'm a little bit leery of putting it on when I'm not 100% sure what's going on here.

I started the car for a second with the oil drain line off the pan, just to see what would happen, and it pumped about the equivalent of a weak garden hose out so I immediately shut it off. Is that much flow normal?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

What size feed line and restrictor?

A good amount of oil should come out of the return. Imagine a bathroom sink about halfway on.

Aradin

-4 and .065 IIRC.

Yeah that's about what it was. Didn't know if that was normal or not.

Aradin

Put new turbo on today. Did the EXACT same thing. Even made a completely new drain line and ensured no restriction before installing it. Oil was gushing out of every possible orifice after 15 minutes of run time. Seriously at my wits end with this thing.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Like a brand new turbo?

You need to make sure all fluid and air hoses are routed properly. You also need to check every valve stem seal

Another way to quantify how bad the leak is would be to fill the motor with oil to the full mark on the dipstick, let the car run and time it, say for a minute, then shut it down and check the oil level. That will give you an idea of where the leak could be as a certain component can only flow so much oil over a given period of time

diatibe24

I have almost the exact same problem but have not had time to trouble shoot (because of weather). Same feed lines -4 in with .065 and it pours out oil just like yours. Light gray with a burnt oil smell. Motor runs perfect purrs like a kitten. Just about after a min of start up it bellows out that horrid smoke. I rebuilt my turbo with all new seals and still does it. At first I thought it might be a fuel issue as it looks light gray (the smoke) but smells like oil.

It literally did this out of nowhere just idling in the drive way and it started doing the same thing as you described.

Aradin

Yes. A brand new turbo. As I stated earlier I've already ruled out anything to do with the motor. I've narrowed it down to an oiling issue with the turbo. The longer the car runs, the worse it gets. Oil goes in, oil doesn't go out efficiently; at least that's what it seems like to me. It starts oozing out of every possible hole and crevice the turbo has. Both the compressor and turbine and I could even see some coming out from under the feed flange after so much had built up in there. Somehow, the CHRA seems to be getting pressurized.

I've already verified the drain line/return bung have no restriction and to have this issue on 3 different turbos rules them out. At this point I'm wondering if it's possible that my catch can lines are clogged and causing crankcase pressure to build up the longer the car runs, inhibiting the drain lines flow into the oil pan. Just a theory but something I need to rule out.


Please let me know if you figure out what's causing this. I've seen a few others with this issue but haven't found any concrete answers or solutions. I feel like I'm getting beaten by this issue when I've done everything right and checked over everything again and again.

diatibe24

Please let me know if you figure out what's causing this. I've seen a few others with this issue but haven't found any concrete answers or solutions. I feel like I'm getting beaten by this issue when I've done everything right and checked over everything again and again.[/QUOTE]

Oh absolutely, this is such a weird issue and seems to pop up rarely. Only thing I can think of without diving into it more is maybe a sever climate change as we have had around here may be a cause? My ex had a turbo SAAB that did something similar and ran it through a gambit of mechanics and they had no answers either because nothing checks out as actually "wrong". It eventually just went away on its own. Mine is not a daily driver though thank god.

Aradin

Turned out to be crankcase pressure due to clogged catch can lines as I suspected. Took the lines off to test and the car ran 100% with no smoke or oil oozing out of the turbo. Cleaned the lines and now all is well again. The can was not full but the lines were all gunked up with white frothy stuff presumably from condensation and the colder weather. New turbo is a-ok.

LightningTeg

Go floor it some and it will fix itself =/ lol.

So you pulled the turbo manifold off after running it until its smoking like a dog and there was no sign of oil in the exhaust ports or engine? That is bizarre. I think it is time to set up a control valve for the oil feed to regulate the pressure getting to the turbo.

Aradin

Engine is good! It was just poor maintenance on my part. Crazy how something so small can make such a big difference. All the smoke and oil was because the turbo couldn't drain due to the building up of crankcase pressure. Oil was just finding it's way out of the seals and directly into the exhaust and compressor housing when the CHRA started getting pressurized. I can't remember the last time I cleaned my catch can/lines honestly. It's a little inadequate anyway. I will be stepping up to a setup with -10 lines asap.

Drove the car about 15 miles. Put gas in it. Did a few 3rd/4th gear hits and she's good.

Big relief. I've been without a car for about 10 days now. This thing is my daily and it's been hectic trying to get where I need to go.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

What fittings and diameter line are you using?

It would take a very long time for sludge and junk to block a line, unless you were using a low quality oil and/or too much time and mileage between oil changes.

I was about to say that typically a broken ringland would make the motor sound like a Subaru at some point in time. It's also possible, but very rare, that a ringland could crack bad enough to cause issues once the piston expands and cylinder pressures increase yet at idle and low engine temps you'd never know there was an issue. However the cylinder pressure increase caused by testing would certainly make it obvious due to the low readings. Typically in both situations the damaged portion of the piston would leave witness marks in the cylinder walls.

Glad it was something simple and ridiculous that didn't harm the motor. This should reinforce to others why a complete and detailed maintenance inspection at least twice a year is crucial to avoiding headaches such as this

supersilverdc2

XXXX2


AND it may be a good idea to look for a backup car. When you mess with any car, upgrading and what not, sometimes unexpected things happen. This way you have a reliable backup car to get to and from work etc...

I have a 91 cb7 or accord with an f22 as a backup. Paid 600 bucks for it with a new motor from engine world.. cant beat the price and mental comfort of "at least I can still make money and get places if i blow my ish up"

blackeg

yeah you really need a second car when you have a boosted honda as such. ive had everything from an ef hatch, to a volkswagon (that was a bad idea) to a mazda protege.

ive seen the lines get clogged up before, its like cholesterol for your catchcan hoses. what size are they? id recommend at least 2 hoses at 5/8 or 3/4".

Aradin

I think they're 3/8". I'm using a gutted stock PCV valve and the stock breather port to a vented can.