Builda'Teg_92

ok well to keep it short and sweet this is my first attempt at boost. What are my goals? well iv never been to a track or anything like that but i would love to get involved with that kind of crowd, and when i do take my setup to the track i would like to run in the 11s on a stock internal b20 (11.99 is fine with me) making just under 300whp on 91oct with a weight of about 2200lbs with me in it keeping my rev's no more than 7500rpm. but still be able to drive to work when i feel like it (16 miles round trip)

What i have right now...

b20 9.6 cr w/ knock sensor
98 Civic type-r transmission (yeah yeah lol)

Whats in the mail...

innovative race style mounts w/ hydraulic conversion
competition clutch stage 2
ACT 12.5 lbs flywheel
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
precision 650cc injectors
Performer X
golden eagle fuel rail (bling)
Go-Autoworks half size radiator+fan+shroud
Tial 38mm wastegate 8lb spring (i know i wont hit my goals with that, starting small)
Tial 50mm Q style BOV
Go-Autoworks FMIC
Go-Autoworks mini-ram
Go-Autoworks down pipe 3'' w/ 2 bungs
T3/T4 57 trim w/ .63AR (a little big i know, but i do plan to upgrade motors in the future)
LC-1 wideband
Hondata s300v2

What i need...

3 bar MAP? i believe ill need about 15psi for my goal of 300hp sound right? so that means yes im guessing?
FPR?
boost controller?
oil restrictor?
vacuum box?

Any suggestions? Anything to flame on? ill be posting pics of the motor/trans and parts as they arrive until i can get this thing started and running....even if it might take a while i would like to document to show what a newb goes through.

K7-1Ktrevor

sounds like a good plan. keep the stock intake mani or jerry rig a b16 intake mani to fit. also Id recommend a 4 bar, all the cars I tune with a 4 bar over 3 bar run alot smoother and are alot easier to tune.

Builda'Teg_92

ok sweet, can i ask why its easier to tune? im guessing it gives the tuner more play to work with on the table?

Anyways i see in your sig you got 11sec stock ls, that really gives me hope

Builda'Teg_92

this is the motor i got all cleaned and painted, i got paint on the oil pan but i actually ordered a moroso turbo oil pan w/ the bung for oil return i hear about leaks but im going to try it out anyways, just take extra precaution. My valve cover is off in the pic cause its getting powder coated

CTR trans....pricy (i also have a Wavetrac LSD as a back up diff)

rclark

Is there a technical reason for that? It seems to me the resolution of the sensor over a broader range of pressure would do just the opposite- less precise due to the fact that you are adding an entire extra 14.7psi of pressure over the same sensor voltage.

Builda'Teg_92

Hmm I see what your saying too, well I was just gonna buy a 3BAR GM but if a 4BAR is better Ill jut purchase the hondata 4BAR for 30$ extra. Any help would be great.

K7-1Ktrevor

yes the 3 bars were designed like 20 years ago. the 4 bars just read much better. not all sensors are created equally. if you don't believe me go drive a dsm with a 3" gm maf sensor when its raining.

you should have no problems. I have a similar b20 build to yours right now as well. just make sure you get slicks and know how to drive. it wasn't even hard hitting 11's with my old ls turbo.

Builda'Teg_92

Ok I guess I'll dish out the extra 30$. I wanted to know cause I'm writing down my setup for the s300 so they can supply a basemap and they wanna know what map sensor, I'll go ahead and say 4bar.

rclark

Care to elaborate on how one 0-5v sensor is better than another?

On a Honda application it's the same amount of voltage coming out of the sensor. How is the MAF relevant to a speed density car? Also, a MAF works in a much different way than a MAP sensor. Flow vs. pressure, GM hot-wire style MAF sensors in the rain- I can see the issue there. On a MAP based car I don't see how it would be different.

I'm not trying to start an e-fight, I'm asking an honest question. Why would an Omni 3 bar read WORSE than an Omni 4 bar, as you are suggesting?

Here is a typical 0-5v speed density MAP range - I belive this is stock, but most sensors operate in this fashion, as it works within the parameters on Hondata this way as well:


Now what you are suggesting, and what I am trying to understand, is that under the parameters that all Honda sensors work in this way (which to my knowledge they do) is that by putting about 58 psi over the same 5v chart you see above, that you would see less resolution (sensor clarity) when this same voltage chart is over 42 psi or so?

K7-1Ktrevor

not comparing a omni3 bar to a omni 4 bar comparing a gm 3 bar to a omni 4 bar. what would I know, Its not like I tune cars about every day. the gm 3 bar maps suck. if your comparing to a omni 3 bar that will be just as good.

K7-1Ktrevor

sorry but I don't have the time or energy to sit and debate with you why gm 3 bars suck. all I can tell you is from first hand experience the oem style 4 bar map sensors work alot better then the gm map sensors do.

Builda'Teg_92

This is kinda confusing, but regardless I went with the OEM Style hondata 4BAR.

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

I think they thought you meant all 3bar map sensors.

K7-1Ktrevor

no my bad. I meant to put gm style ones. Iv only used the oem style 4 bars and gm 3 bars. I didn't even realize they made a omni 3 bar till it was brought up.

LightningTeg

Motorola 2.5 bars are junk too. Very sensitive to any heat or water.

rclark

and it's not like i teach this for a living....

anyways, the only reason i bring it up is because the omni 3bar is cheaper than the 4bar. least they were last time i bought one. just trying to save the OP a few bucks.

rich7777

Looking very tidy

Builda'Teg_92

Thanks for that. i dont mind spending the extra $ at the moment, just trying to have the best setup possible for my first time around.

Thanks rich, i was lurking around in your thread yesterday. Hows your first tranny experience going?..........(transmission)

rich7777

Lol, i'm going to jump on it after I've finished my tea. I have a strong mind, I'm not afraid of it lol... It should be all good.....

Builda'Teg_92

^Right on lol


Soooooo....my flywheel,oil pan, and mounts should be in today and i got a full refund on my fuel rail cause it wasent in stock -__- Also my vale cover should be ready today. 80% of my order will be coming from Go-Autoworks so it could take a while, i kinda ordered alot lol.

rich7777

You can't go wrong with go autoworks. Just be careful with the oil return as that manifold sits the Turbo really low.

blackeg

In reference to the map sensor debate, I use the gm 3bar and am on my 3rd one in 5 years. They pretty much do suck.. I've tuned a car or two with the 2.5 bar and it wasn't impressive.

rclark

I concur that the GM 3 Bar sensors are not great- they are known to fail even on their intended application. I was under the impression he was saying the sensor itself gave a worse reading, which I did not understand.

With the availability and price of aftermarket MAP sensors these days, I don't know why people would try them anymore.

K7-1Ktrevor

the sensor does give a shitty reading. maybe its cause I don't wanna sit there and adjust the offset and scaler from the motec 3 bar to calibrate the sensor (because its a big waste of time and I shouldn't have to) but the gm 3 bars suck dick when your trying to accurately tune the vacuum section of the map. you don't have to beleive me, just trying to give this kid some advice and glad that he took it and didn't get a gm map sensor. now Im not going to clutter up his thread with any more useless bickering so ill leave it at this.

Builda'Teg_92

Thanks for the help....i was looking around in your thread the other day and you wernt joking, we do have pretty much the same build going on with just diffrent brands of parts. I gotta to stop buy and subcribe.




So anyways having a tuff time trying to get my parts since the UPS guy wont leave them, uggh.....those powder coat guys are taking forever to.

Well if anybody was wondering this is the car the motors going into, painted by yours truly.....still needs windows and a wetsand but im working on it(dont mind the HXs there just my rollers).