DC-2uned

Hey guys, I'm sure you have heard about the Borg Warner SX-E line of turbos expected to be released August 1st, 2015. I searched for a thread pertaining to them but, didn't find one so I figured I'd start one where we can compile and share info. I want to thank Full-Race Geoff, Howard Coleman from CPR and BoostLab for a lot of this info. I am in no way affiliated with Borg Warner, nor a salesman of any kind, just an enthusiast who really enjoyed the results I've seen from the EFR line such as the Sierra Sierra Evo and the fact all Indy cars moved to twin EFR7163s in 2014(can't be for no reason). The primary use of this thread is to share info on the new SX-E's, but you can compare them with other brand turbos as long as they either have similar compressor maps, wheel sizes or have been back-to-back tested on the same car. I don't want this to turn into an opinionated arguing match of Borg Warner vs Garrett vs Precision vs Whoever, let's keep it to the facts and let's keep it objective. With that said, here's what I got so far...


The new Airwerks turbos designated 'Enhanced S200/300SX' are intended for competition or racing applications. They are based upon the all-stars of the current S200 and S300 lineups but are upgraded with an all-new multipad 360* thrust bearing, the latest generation billet compressor blade aero and new compressor housings.

The SX-E line is similar in design to the EFR line but without the Blow Off Valve, Internal Wastegate, Gamma-Ti Turbine Wheel and Ball Bearing, making them way less expensive.

The dramatic difference between the typical cast SX compressor maps and the SX-E maps is increased efficiency from the compressor cover.

All S300SX-E turbos have the same size turbine wheel as the EFR9180(73mm Exducer, 80mm Inducer) except the S362SX-E that comes with the 68mm Exducer, 76mm Inducer wheel

Numbers signify Compressor Inducer size in mm(S252=52mm wheel, S257=57mm wheel, etc)


S200 Series: Available with T4 Twin Scroll 0.83, 1.00, 1.15 and 1.22 A/R Turbine Housings

S252SX-E
S257SX-E



The S257SX-E Compressor Map:


S300 Series: Available with T4 Single Scroll 0.88 or Twin Scroll 0.91 and 1.00 A/R Turbine Housings

S362SX-E (w/68mm Turbine Wheel)
S362SX-E (w/73mm Turbine Wheel)
S363SX-E
S364.5SX-E
S366SX-E
S369SX-E



The S366SX(red) compared to S366SX-E(black):


The S369SX-E Compressor Map:


From Full-Race Geoff:
"These new compressors move some air. I saw the 69mm overlayed on a GTX4294R...gives up nothing, nowhere...pretty interesting how aggressive they can get on comp wheel aero and this 80mm is one of their best turbine wheel designs to date."

My Observations:
I took a look into what he was talking about and I have to agree, the maps are pretty similar. Both turbos are good to 95lbs/950hp.

Both have ~4.9 peak Pressure Ratio(PR) at the top of the surge line. The difference is the Borg hits that peak by ~64lbs and slowly tapers down as flow increases toward the choke line. The Garrett takes until ~79lbs to hit that peak and tapers toward the choke line. This make for a wider graph at a high PR for the Borg.

Mind you, on the Compressor side, the Garrett has 94mm Exd, 68mm Ind while the Borg has 91.4mm Exd, 69mm Ind. On the Turbine side the Garrett has 82mm Ind, 75mm Exd while the Borg has 80mm Ind, 73mm Exd.

So from this you can conclude not that one is always better than the other for all scenarios, but the fact that the Borg is producing the same flow and a wider map at high PR with overall smaller wheels, it's a real contender and very well designed.

S257SX-E(also called "Enhanced S200SX-7670") from SEMA last year:

Schister66

I'm definitely on the Borg Warner bandwagon and like seeing this new line, but my only concern is this - everything i've seen so far (including the S2xx line) is in T4 only. Is there any plan to release a T3 version of these units? Otherwise they're kind of overkill for everything Honda...

DC-2uned

As of right now, I don't know about the production of any T3 units. I know the Rotary guys are looking forward to them but they need much bigger exhaust wheels and housings in relation to cold side for the same power compared to 4cyl vtec. The Supra guys are also anticipating them but they have much bigger motors to spool them up. In the Honda crowd, I think they will mainly be focused toward the drag community as a much less expensive alternative to the large GT/GTX turbos. They don't have Ball bearing like the GTXs but with 2-step and the constant high rpms a drag car sees, you don't have to worry about spool and transient nearly as much as you would in a road race car. Like I said, the GTX4294R and S369SX-E are both good for 950hp with similar maps.

When compared to the GTW, the Borg uses bigger wheels to make the same power. For example: GTW3884JB(aka GTW6765JB) which is the biggest GTW vs the S369SXE which is the biggest Borg, they both make 950hp. The GTW3884 has a 84ex,67in comp and 74in,65ex turbine...Borg S369SX-E has 91ex, 69in comp and 80in, 73ex turbine. I have yet to see the GTW3884JB Compressor Map to make a more accurate comparison. They both cost ~$1k for a "supercore"(whole turbo minus turbine housing).


Here is a chart figuring out the areas of the popular wheels and their relationships of how the Turbine compares to the Compressor expressed as a percentage, made by Howard Coleman of CPR(RX7 Guy):

"I settled on the following
Take the minor diameter and solve for the area.
Take the major diameter and solve for the area.
Add together, divide by two.
You now have the average area of the wheel."
Note: The new for 2015's flow a significant amount of air for their area due to improved wheel aero and/or housing design


Here's my list in square inches:...............Compressor............Turbin e.................Relationship

GT2860RS (Disco Potato)........................3.549.............. .....3.105.................... 87%
FC T2 (OEM).........................................3.57 9....................4.288................... 119%
BW EFR "6255".....................................3.79... ...................6.758....................178%
TDO5H 18G..........................................4.375 ....................3.363.....................77%
BW EFR "6758".....................................4.498.. ..................5.229.....................86%
BW EFR "7064".....................................4.632.. ..................5.229.....................88%
GT3071R........................................... ...4.776....................4.019................. .. 84%
GT3071R........................................... ...4.776....................3.683................. ...77%
GT2876............................................ ....5.224....................3.108................ ....59%
RX6 TCW 17..........................................5.29.. ...................4.315....................82%
TO4E 57 Trim........................................5.369. ...................5.408 (Stg 5).........100%
GT3776............................................ .....5.374...................5.441................ ....101%
BW S200SX...........................................5 .40.....................5.24...................... 97%
TO4E 60 Trim........................................5.476. ...................5.408....................98%
GT3076R........................................... ....5.511...................4.019................. ....73%
BW S300SXE 7670..................................5.52........ .............5.27.......................95%
BW EFR "7670"......................................5.524. ...................5.229.....................95%
GTW5857........................................... ...5.59......................4.52................. .....81% (2015 Garrett)
GTX3076R.......................................... ...5.614....................4.019................. ....71.5%
RX6 TCW10............................................5 .63.....................4.315..................... 77%
HKS TO4S.............................................. 5.64.....................5.89..................... .104%
Turbonetics 60-1.....................................5.647....... .............5.89......................104%
Turbonetics T61......................................5.79..... ............... 5.89......................101%
TO4B 62-1.............................................5.87 ......................5.89......................10 0%
FD (OEM)............................................. .5.972....................5.25.................... ...88%
RX6 TCW 76...........................................6.03. ....................4.315......................72%
Precision 6062........................................6.27.. ...................5.408......................86%
RX6 TCW77............................................6 .356...................4.315...................... 68%
Borg Warner S300 60 PN177282 & 80.........6.383...................6.328.......... ............99%
GT3582R........................................... .....6.386...................5.171................ ......81%
HTA 3582R (Forced Performance).............. 6.386...................5.171..................... .81%
GT3574 (A-Spec, Turblown TD61)...............6.386...................5.89.( P)...................92%
GT3082R........................................... .....6.386.................smaller than GT35R......?
Precision 6262.........................................6.448 ..................5.408.......................84%
Precision 6265.........................................6.448 ..................5.885 (P)..................91%
GTX3582R.......................................... .....6.519..................5.171................. ......79%
BW S362 FMW (billet)...............................6.53....... .............6.35........................97%
BW S300 SXE 62......................................6.54...... ..............7.15........................109% (2015)
BW EFR "8374"........................................6.62 6...................6.23........................94 %
BW, R85, TEC300.....................................6.667.. .................6.93........................104%
GTW6262........................................... .....6.69.....................5.38................ .......80% (2015 Garrett)
GTW6265........................................... .....6.69.....................5.88................ .......88% (2015 Garrett)
BW Bullseye S362....................................6.69...... ................6.31.......................94%
HTA 3586 (Forced Performance).................6.839................ ....5.171......................76%
GTW6465........................................... .....6.84.....................5.88................ ........86% (2015 Garrett)
Precision GEN2 6266.................................6.91......... ............6............................87% (2015)
Borg W S300s 61/87(2010 catalog)..............6.946...................6.92 8......................100%
Precision 6765.........................................6.997 .................. 5.885 (P)..................84%
Precision 6768.........................................6.997 ...................6.652 (GTQ)..............95%
TO4Z, A Spec GT500 PT67.........................7.002................ ....5.885 (P).................87%
BW S300 SXE 63......................................7.06...... ...............7.15........................101% (2015)
Borg Warner S300 63 PN177283................ 7.06.....................6.31..................... ....89%
Precision GEN2 6466................................7.07.......... ............6............................85% (2015)
GTW6765........................................... ....7.09.....................5.88................. ........83% (2015 Garrett)
GT3788R........................................... .....7.155....................5.694............... ........80%
GT4088R........................................... .....7.167....................6.423............... ........90%
Borg Warner S364 FMW............................7.17............... .......6.31........................88%
BW S300 SXE 64......................................7.17...... ................7.15........................99% (2015)
GT4088............................................ .......7.26.....................6.633............. ..........91%
T78............................................... .........7.584....................5.903........... ...........78%
T88 33D............................................... ...7.58.....................7.577................. .....100%
T66............................................... .........7.657...................5.894............ ...........77%
Borg Warner S300X 9179...........................7.691.............. .....5.885 (P)..................77%
BW S300 SXE 66......................................7.74...... ................7.15........................92% (2015)
Borg W S300sx 66/91(2010 catalog)............7.743....................7.151 .......................92%
Borg Warner S366....................................7.88...... ................6.23........................79%
BW EFR "9180"........................................7.97 4....................7.189.......................9 0%
BW S300 SXE 69......................................7.99...... ................7.15........................89% (2015)
Precision GEN2 6870.................................8.01......... .............6.77........................85% (2015)
HTA 3794 (Forced Performance).................8.148................ .....5.89........................72%
GT4094R........................................... ......8.175....................6.423.............. .........79%
GT4294, T51R..........................................8.38 4....................7.527.......................9 0%
Borg W K29 Billet (2010 catalog)................8.432..................... 7.175.......................85%
T88 34D............................................... ..8.449.....................7.577................. ......90%
MasterPower "GT42".................................8.658...... ..............6.871.......................79%
T70............................................... .........8.725...................6.648............ ............76%
Borg Warner S368....................................9.1....... ................7.49.........................77%
Borg W S400sx (2010 catalog)....................9.174................. ...7.62........................83%
Borg Warner S372-80................................9.456........... .........7.173......................76%
Borg Warner S372-83.4.............................9.456............ ........7.593.......................80%
Borg Warner S372-84................................9.456........... ........10.298......................109%
Borg Warner S475....................................9.49...... ...............10.292......................108%
T72............................................... .........9.549....................6.648 (Q)..................69%
GT4202............................................ .......9.726....................7.527............. ..........77%
T51R Spl............................................... ..9.92......................7.194................. ......73%
Masterpower GT45....................................10.082.... ..................8.4739..................84%

DC-2uned

Just wanted to bump this incase anyone has had hands-on experience to share with the new SXE's...

LightningTeg

T4 only is going to drive away alot of Honda guys

Geasa

I've always felt like this was the one main issue with BW; they have a pretty small assortment of any sub 600hp turbos.... let alone practically nothing for the 3-500 range. Is it just me or is Turbonetics kinda going the same way with all their new lines? Honestly without all the flow rates it's hard for me to even find any *new* non garrets for our street applications

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The S247, S252 and S257 BWs are all still out on the market and still available in those HP ranges that you've easily described. We're not even including the EFR lines from the EFR7064 to EFR7670 lines.

The turbonetics shelf line is somewhat going towards largers sizes, but the TNX lines still utilize smaller sizes from the 350-550whp.

You're not looking hard enough...

theYBLEGAL

Homie: BorgWarner EFR 6258 Turbo - Full-Race.com

Geasa

Well as far as the turbonetics ones I did find the series, though not the specific flow rates (guess I'll be making some calls in the future)
You're right I spoke a bit out of turn, what I was more of going for is that it *seems* they have mostly higher hp turbos. Let alone the fact that mostly everyone in this scene runs garrets... not just the used older ones either.
You're a garret lover, however with your knowledge why do YOU think the newer turbonetics and BWs aren't seen as often?

Wait they still have 247s?
Wow I musta been smoking too much when looking at BWs lol my bad

2kdrift

Bullseye produces a bunch of BW based turbos aswell, many of which are in the range you are looking at

Geasa

For a second I thought they were borgwarner lmao

Moog_enep3

necro - any new info on these bad boys? I just purchased a s257 sx-e...hard to beat these based off of testimony i got from a few people already.