turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Im putting my motor together and this time around im going with oem bearings.
Now i measured all my parts ( inside diameter of main bores, crank outside diameter etc). Im shooting for .0018-.0020 clearance.
when picking a bearing color im a bit confused on how to get exact numbers based of hondas bearing chart.

Main Bearing Set
2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793"-0.0791"
2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791"-0.0790"
2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790"-0.0789"
2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789"-0.0788"
2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788"-0.0787"
1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787"-0.0785"
1.995-1.922 mm 0.0785"-0.0757"

Conrod Bearing Set
1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594"-0.0593"
1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593"-0.0592"
1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592"-0.0591"
1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591"-0.0590"
1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590"-0.0589"
1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589"-0.0587"
1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587"-0.0586"

Here are the Part Numbers from Honda:

Main upper bearings (B16A, B18C, B18B, B20)
13321-PR3-004 BLUE
13322-PR3-004 BLACK
13323-PR3-004 BROWN
13324-PR3-004 GREEN
13325-PR3-004 YELLOW
13326-PR3-004 PINK
13327-PR3-004 RED

Main lower bearings (B16A, B18C, B18B, B20)
13341-PR3-004 BLUE
13342-PR3-004 BLACK
13343-PR3-004 BROWN
13344-PR3-004 GREEN
13345-PR3-004 YELLOW
13346-PR3-004 PINK
13347-PR3-004 RED

B18A/B18B/B20 Rod bearings
13211-PR4-A02 BLUE
13212-PR4-A02 BLACK
13213-PR4-A02 BROWN
13214-PR4-A02 GREEN
13215-PR4-A02 YELLOW
13216-PR4-A02 PINK
13217-PR4-A02 RED

GSR/ITR Rod bearings
13211-P72-003 BLUE
13212-P72-003 BLACK
13213-P72-003 BROWN
13214-P72-003 GREEN
13215-P72-003 YELLOW
13216-P72-003 PINK
13217-P72-003 RED

B16A/B17A Rod bearings
13211-P30-003 BLUE
13212-P30-003 BLACK
13213-P30-003 BROWN
13214-P30-003 GREEN
13215-P30-003 YELLOW
13216-P30-003 PINK
13217-P30-003 RED


For example if i have a main cap inside cap size of 2.3238 and a crank outer diameter of 2.1644.
lets say i want to run a yellow bearing ( acl standard bearing size)
2.3238 minus 2.1644minus 2x bearing thickness (0.0788x2 =0.1576) equals a clearance of 0.0018
Now with that being said if i want more clearance and need a thinner bearing i go one step down.
That will be a pink bearing. But from the chart i see 0.0787"-0.0785" which number do i plug in? I know i can guess and find a clearance, but when i order the bearing will it be between 0.0787 and 0.0785? Is this a coin toss on wich size bearing ill recieve? It could be a diffrence of being right where i want to be or just a hair loose.
I know im being **** on the sizes and i can just run what i end up with. Im putting this out there to see if theres a tried and true way to ****** my exact clearance.

Any help comments and experience is welcome. Im sure many novice engine builders like myself will benefit frow this.

Runnerdown

There is a tool you want called a dial bore gauge. It will eliminate guesswork.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

i have machinist micrometers and a digital dial bore gauge. How does that eliminate the guess work when honda doesnt give an exact measurement for each bearing.

93h2beg

in my experiance- i have always shot for 2 thous. on hondas. I like them a little looser. When i run a "in spec" clearance they run fine, but seem to run best at about 22 thous. I have ran them tighter than 16 with issues.
I like my front bearing and my rear being to be a little tighter than the rest too.
Whats my point??? your splitting hairs. get it in the park and you will be fine. When im doing a quicke build, i polish the crank and run green bearing throughout it. NEVER HAVE I HAD AN ISSUE. To date I have built 16 honda engines (and many more domestics) I beat the snot out of- relentless abuse, and zero failures. I built and h22 to spin to 10k. and abused it till the pistons scared the walls to the point of massive blow-by. Bearings looked great, i saved them as a back up just incase. My honest advise, just get it done, and get it on the road.

OneBadTurboCRV

There is an old saying for this... "Build it loose and nobody will know, build it tight and everyone will know." My experience has been the same as "92h2beg". I typically shoot for 0.002" and if it ends up being +/- 0.0002" then so be it. Depending on end clearance all you need to do is switch up the weight of the oil you are using, its not a big deal. It is a non factory application after all.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the response and guidlines.
What brand bore gauge do you use for cylinder walls and to check the bearing bores?
Dial or electric?
Reason I ask is I am using an electric gauge and its driving me crazy on how hard it is to get the gauge to repeat the last measurment I just took, or if I zero the gauge to get it to rest at the measurement I jusst took.

Thanks for you input as well. What bore gauge do you own? What's your preference?

93h2beg

I have a good working relationship with my machine shop. He takes measurements for me, i trust him fully. He tells me all the time he does not know hondas at all, but knows machining. So if i get him specs he will machine it to be right. Everybody around here knows "John" doesn't touch imports, but he does for me.

So I have no idea what brand tools he uses, but i do know they are not digital.

4genaccordfreak

The OEM Honda bearings do have a variance but it is minimal, as long as you shoot for a specific range, if it is out by 1-2 ten-thousanths it will be fine.

I agree with the guys above. Depending on the purpose of the motor, if it will be "built" and putting down atleast (2x) the original power output, looser clearances than factory are recommended. I also shoot for 0.0018-0.0019" on the mains and 0.002"
(+/- 0.0001-0.0002") for the rods. They are fairly "standard" clearances for built B-series engines.

OneBadTurboCRV

Sunnen or Starrett... you can get other cheaper ones like a Mit or something along those lines.

10-15 years ago I would have slapped you if you asked me which one - dial or digital. BUT, times have changed and so have my eyes. I find it MUCH easier to find measurement on a digital due to the simplicity of zeroing it out with the push of a button. This is much better than rotating a dial and trying to hold measurement and then checking again and possibly having to move it again.

I am not sure how you are doing it so sorry if you know this already, but it is the same for both styles. Find your rocking measurement and zero the bore gauge out at the point it dwells (be sure to accommodate the center of the "dead spot"). Put it in the micrometer and repeat the zero on the bore gauge. Read your measurement on the micrometer. Fast and simple and easily repeatable.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Ok so the consensus is +- 0.0001 got it. The motor is a little more than double the hp so those clearances is what I'm aiming for.



Yes this is exactly how I am measuring. Question how do I acommodate for the dead spot?
Also why is it a diffrent method checking these bores than the cylinder bores?
Cylinder bores I'm measuring my anvils on the gauge. I input that number in the gauge and find my tightest point in the cylinder. I also experimented with this last night for the mains and got the same number both ways. Is there a preference when measuring different bores?

citrus3000psi

semi off topic, I made this app for myself a while back to help keep track of all the numbers...put the numbers in and send it off to a printer...

http://www.dansprojects.com/itr/spec/index.cfm

OneBadTurboCRV

Either method works. You either do more or less math (maybe I should say easier). Personally I like to treat each bore - be it cylinder, rod, main, cams, ect... - as an "unknown". Start fresh and zero out. The only reason you would do it different would be to check out of round. This can also be done by measuring at any point and zeroing to have a "baseline".

The dead spot should tried to be centered in your zeroing and then when using a micrometer you tighten and loosen the thimble to where the gauge starts to move and then center it between the two points. This is for the **** person.

Either way, I find it much easier to work from a zero point. It is something you can keep, even between cylinders and the exact variance can instantly be seen on the gauge. To me that is easier/less math, although both ways work equally fine. Another way for main bores is to set crankshaft diameter and oil clearances factored into the gauge. Take your measurement and divide that by two to get your bearings needed. There are dozens of ways to do all of this, there is no true "right way" only a bunch of wrong ways... haha.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

does this app work for finding bearings or just to keep your info in one place?


gotcha starting from a zero point is best and measuring with outside micrometers for bores.

i attached a pic of one of my bearings can anyone tell me what these oits on the bearing is from.

sleepencivic

The best advice if your aiming for perfection on your build or just looking for peace of mind is to just order a few of each color for your application. You would have them to choose from during the rebuild process. And know the exact measurement of the bearing because its in your hand!!

93h2beg

if it was center of the bearing, or all over i would detonation. but just on the side... i'm not sure.

OneBadTurboCRV

Most likely dirt embedment. Hard for me to see the picture. Picture of the corresponding crankshaft journal would help as well to verify. You should never just look at bearings alone.

93h2beg

very true, it does look like some junk right by the tang, but the peppered look closer to and inside the arrow is what i keyed in on.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

dirt from contaminated oil? If i would have ran these bearings for another say 1000k miles would the crank have been ruined? Ill snap and post a pic of the cank in a few

4genaccordfreak

Keep in mind you do have a film of oil all around the crank journal and bearing surface at all times. Never seen embedded debris cause crank journal wear, unless there was a complete bearing failure or fine metal contamination in the oil. Tiny dirt spots will just adhere to the bearing surface and "should" wash away over time, if they don't it usually does nothing.

OneBadTurboCRV

This should help you get a better understanding of what happens and why...



The bearings "should" be fine and not damage the crankshaft; however, if flaking occurs this could lead to galling/formations/hard spots that will wear/score the crankshaft. The other occurances could be that "digs" are created from pickup on the journal and the bearings are shaved down rather quickly. This would allow contaminants to potentially cause other scoring and possible oil starvation.

(The original image didn't work, so I had to find a different one unfortunately.)