Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Avgas)??
03-25-2006, 12:00 PM
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Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Avgas)??
I know that the o2 sensor and the cat will suffer (I will prolly take the o2 sensor out and hollow out the cat as I don't need to smog my car where I live). Is there any other detriment to running leaded gas??
I can get the 100 octane avgas for less than 91 octane pump and just keep it in drums (which I can get free from work) in my garage, buy a little electric pump and viola gas with decent octane.
Also, what does it mean to my ems (aem) to not have an o2 sensor? Is this where open loop vs. closed loop comes in?
TIA for any help.
Edit: I have read all the threads I could pull up on leaded gas, but none have much info, save the fact that it destroys the o2 sensor and the cat.
I can get the 100 octane avgas for less than 91 octane pump and just keep it in drums (which I can get free from work) in my garage, buy a little electric pump and viola gas with decent octane.
Also, what does it mean to my ems (aem) to not have an o2 sensor? Is this where open loop vs. closed loop comes in?
TIA for any help.
Edit: I have read all the threads I could pull up on leaded gas, but none have much info, save the fact that it destroys the o2 sensor and the cat.
03-25-2006, 02:05 PM
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Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Avgas)?? (KeyserSoze)
nvm, I guess I'll just run open loop and disable the o2 sensor. 
03-25-2006, 04:28 PM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's missing some very vital lubricant's than your engine needs
i'd HIGHLY suggest against running "dry" gas</TD></TR></TABLE>
"dry", care to elaborate?
I have been told by many people that leaded gas actually lubricates better than unleaded, not true?
i'd HIGHLY suggest against running "dry" gas</TD></TR></TABLE>
"dry", care to elaborate?
I have been told by many people that leaded gas actually lubricates better than unleaded, not true?
03-25-2006, 05:50 PM
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Re: (KeyserSoze)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have been told by many people that leaded gas actually lubricates better than unleaded, not true? </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what I thought.
I have been told by many people that leaded gas actually lubricates better than unleaded, not true? </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what I thought.
03-25-2006, 08:45 PM
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Re: (dunkd)
I didn't write that because I necessarily want it to lubricate, I only wrote it because that was listed in an earlier post as something that would be of detriment to my engine. I have heard from numerous v8 guys and some guys that fly airplanes that leaded gas actually lubricates some parts of your engine (valveguides being one of those). I dont really care about the lubrication though........
I am asking if there is any real reason I could not just run 100 ocatane leaded gas and set my ems to open loop so it just reads off of the tables rather than getting feedback from and making adjustments according to what the o2 sensor relays.
I am asking if there is any real reason I could not just run 100 ocatane leaded gas and set my ems to open loop so it just reads off of the tables rather than getting feedback from and making adjustments according to what the o2 sensor relays.
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03-26-2006, 12:36 PM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's missing detergents and lubricants that normal automotive engines need.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for the info. Guess I'm stuck with whack a$$ 91 ocatane here in Ca.
Thanks for the info. Guess I'm stuck with whack a$$ 91 ocatane here in Ca.
03-26-2006, 04:13 PM
#10
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i ran it in my nitrous b16 for a summer when i was refueling crop dusters. Boss told me i could fill my car. Worked fine for me and i ran my o2 sensor. They are right, it is very dry but aside from not being good for a few seals i don't see a problem with it. Diesels need lubricating fuel alot more then we do.
03-26-2006, 04:18 PM
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Re: (1RMDave)
Use marvel mystery oil, 4-6 ounces of MMO per gallon of gasoline. It lubricates and stops lead buildup which can foul plugs and all that jazz. I have run a lot of 100/130 octane low lead avgas through my motor using MMO and it's totally fine.
03-26-2006, 04:22 PM
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Re: (boosted92)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use marvel mystery oil, 4-6 ounces of MMO per gallon of gasoline. It lubricates and stops lead buildup which can foul plugs and all that jazz. I have run a lot of 100/130 octane low lead avgas through my motor using MMO and it's totally fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I have heard of that. A guy that I work with who is a pilot swears by it. Thanks for the replies guys.
Cali gas sux, so I was just lookin for an inexpensive alternative to racegas that would give me a bit more octane for boosting.
Yeah, I have heard of that. A guy that I work with who is a pilot swears by it. Thanks for the replies guys.
Cali gas sux, so I was just lookin for an inexpensive alternative to racegas that would give me a bit more octane for boosting.
03-26-2006, 04:31 PM
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Re: (KeyserSoze)
i think the idea with with marvel mystery oil sounds like a good idea. the lubrication would come from the oil and getting 100 octane gas would make ur car a monster on the street. i say do it!
03-26-2006, 05:50 PM
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Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Avgas)?? (KeyserSoze)
03-27-2006, 08:54 AM
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Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Adamd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adamd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Over here in the UK we use 99 Octane - Unleaded 
Good ****!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Bastard
Good ****!</TD></TR></TABLE>Bastard
03-27-2006, 09:58 AM
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Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (99B16Si)
I run anywhere from straight av gas to a mixture of various mixes to suite my needs for a certain levels of boost, and c16 when I'm really in the mood to play. Every so often I run a tank of premium unleaded to "wash the 02 sensor" of lead deposits. I don't know if that helps, but so far with 6 months of running, no problems, but the day will come when the sensors will have to be replaced.
You will clog up your cat very quickly with leaded gas. I run no cat, so I don't worry about that.
As for running av gas and or racing gas with tetraethylead, the main ingrediant to suppress knock, it will not hurt your combustion chamber. Most of you guys were very young and some not even around when you could go to a Sunoco station and fill er up with Sunoco 260, 108 octane. There was a dial on the pump and you turned it to the desired octane gas you wantet.
Avgas is 100LL, (low Lead), there used to be an aircraft fuel that was 115/145, meaning 115oct at ground level, and up to 145 octane at higher altitudes. This gas was rich in tetraethylead. If you use some of the racing fuels out on the market, it has much more lead than 100LL. The more lead, the higher the octane number. Avgas also has some ingrediants that reduce the fuel from freezing at higher altitudes, these do not hurt engines.
Unleaded gas burns hotter, thus in the beginning when unleaded was introduced, there was a problem with auto's made for leaded gas having valve seat problems due to heat. That is why it took years to finally phase out leaded gas, and over time, the octane rating of leaded gas while being phased out eventually landed at 89 octane in most parts of the country.
The only thing leaded gas will do to your cars engine is eventually poison your 02 sensors and add deposits to your plugs, valves and tops of pistons. Just use a tank of premium occasionally to help wash your sensors.
This is just speaking from my own experience based upon when leaded gas was the only thing available.
You will clog up your cat very quickly with leaded gas. I run no cat, so I don't worry about that.
As for running av gas and or racing gas with tetraethylead, the main ingrediant to suppress knock, it will not hurt your combustion chamber. Most of you guys were very young and some not even around when you could go to a Sunoco station and fill er up with Sunoco 260, 108 octane. There was a dial on the pump and you turned it to the desired octane gas you wantet.
Avgas is 100LL, (low Lead), there used to be an aircraft fuel that was 115/145, meaning 115oct at ground level, and up to 145 octane at higher altitudes. This gas was rich in tetraethylead. If you use some of the racing fuels out on the market, it has much more lead than 100LL. The more lead, the higher the octane number. Avgas also has some ingrediants that reduce the fuel from freezing at higher altitudes, these do not hurt engines.
Unleaded gas burns hotter, thus in the beginning when unleaded was introduced, there was a problem with auto's made for leaded gas having valve seat problems due to heat. That is why it took years to finally phase out leaded gas, and over time, the octane rating of leaded gas while being phased out eventually landed at 89 octane in most parts of the country.
The only thing leaded gas will do to your cars engine is eventually poison your 02 sensors and add deposits to your plugs, valves and tops of pistons. Just use a tank of premium occasionally to help wash your sensors.
This is just speaking from my own experience based upon when leaded gas was the only thing available.
03-27-2006, 10:42 AM
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Re: (rudebwoy)
Depending on amount, methanol would increase octane rating and especially when you use a 50/50 methanol/water injection, it will help keep your valves & combustion chambers cleaner.
Using MMO seems like a good option but at 6 oz. per gallon of gas, would it tend to lower octane rating significantly????
Using MMO seems like a good option but at 6 oz. per gallon of gas, would it tend to lower octane rating significantly????
03-27-2006, 01:28 PM
#20
Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (Adamd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adamd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Over here in the UK we use 99 Octane - Unleaded Good ****!</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's great, but US gas is (research octane + motor octane)/2, whereas your gas is rated using just the research octane, which is the higher number. For all intents and purposes, it's the same as our gas.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about adding some methanol alcohol, will that do anything? will it help boost octane?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Methanol sprayed through it's own injection setup is a fantastic way to control detonation, but I would never put it in my gas tank due to it's corrosive properties.
Good ****!</TD></TR></TABLE>That's great, but US gas is (research octane + motor octane)/2, whereas your gas is rated using just the research octane, which is the higher number. For all intents and purposes, it's the same as our gas.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about adding some methanol alcohol, will that do anything? will it help boost octane?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Methanol sprayed through it's own injection setup is a fantastic way to control detonation, but I would never put it in my gas tank due to it's corrosive properties.
03-27-2006, 07:22 PM
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Re: Any detriment to running 100 octane leaded gas (EnzoSpeed)
Originally Posted by EnzoSpeed
You could use xylene. I buy it by the gallon at my work (Lowe's). It's 118 octane I believe.
Originally Posted by boosted92
Use marvel mystery oil, 4-6 ounces of MMO per gallon of gasoline. It lubricates and stops lead buildup which can foul plugs and all that jazz. I have run a lot of 100/130 octane low lead avgas through my motor using MMO and it's totally fine.
He has run only avgas in his 460 Ford engine that is in his boat for a few years now and has had no issues whatsoever. He also runs this exclusively in his dirtbikes and says it performs very well.
As for the octane rating of the avgas.....from what I have read the AKI (anti knock index) rating of avgas is 100 which equates to ~96 (and some rate it higher) MON. So I am not at all worried about the octane content.
Here is an interesting quote from an article from the uk about avgas......
As its name suggests, 100LL Avgas is a 100-octane fuel, as rated by the severe MON method. The easy-going RON would award it 108-110, making it "nine-star" to we poor peasants who drive mere cars. This is why aircraft piston engines cannot afford to go lead-free. Being made mainly of aluminum, they already have valve-seat inserts, but that is irrelevant; engines redesigned to deal with a drop of 13 MON points (from 100LL to 87 MON/98 RON Super Unleaded) would be larger and heavier low-compression things, using more fuel for less power output. Incidentally the letters LL mean "low lead", because back in the 1960s 100LL was low in lead relative to other aviation fuels, which could contain up to 1 g/litre. By the standards of today 100LL is very high-lead, but it is called low-lead nevertheless (if you haven't got that, pay attention). The Avgas specification allows it to contain up to a massive 0.86 g/litre of lead, but in practice the lead content is 0.4. Avgas can be purchased by anyone, and many small airfields will sell you a few gallons willingly. In the 1980s it was common for motorcycle road racers to use a 50/50 mix of Avgas and 4-star, giving a RON of about 104. The ACU and FIA put a stop to that in the early 1990s, but a lot of it still goes o*n at the enthusiast level in sprinting, drag racing and so forth. Because of its low volatility (when flying at 12,000 feet you do not welcome a vapour lock with open arms) it is less likely to catch fire than standard lead-free fuel, and it can be used in high-compression car and motorcycle engines. The o*nly problem is likely to be poor cold starting (aircraft engines have carburettor heaters).
http://www.airbp.com/airbp/pub....html
BTW - for anyone curious RON is measured using compression ratio as the variable and all others held constant. MON is measured using ignition timing as the variable and all others held constant.
elevatedj32: Thanks for the reply, I was wondering whether there was anyone out there who used this fuel all the time.
I will prolly run this 50/50 with some 91 octane or run on only avgas and use some MMO.
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