PrecisionH23a

So a few months ago I had problems with a misfire that occured around the 3-4k rpm range. After removing the ignition, it ran perfectly... however due to the preludes weaker ignition system it breaks up around the 370whp mark.

Tonight I finally got around to installing the old MSD digital 6+ with the same HVC coil I used before... except this time I changed the dwell to ALL CDI as referenced here: (http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewto...&highlight=msd)

The misfire from 3-4 cleared up quite a bit but around 4-4500 it was really horrible. To be honest... I think once the unit heated up a bit it started to break up more and more. Indication of the box going to ****.

So I throw a BRAND NEW msd hvc coil on and not even 2 miles down the road the car dies at 4500rpms and will not start. I try the old coil... no dice. I remove the MSD and convert back to OEM and it cranks right up. Ignition driver isnt fried... good times.

I have a new Digital 6+ ignition system that I'm going to throw on tomorrow but I thought I would ask you guys for some input so this does not happen again.

Current settings with digi 6+ and hvc coil
Coil Dwell: All cdi systems
dwell factor:30
max dwell: 4.5 teeth
dwell min: .05 teeth

I also read that the dwell vs batt volts table should be a steady 50% and the dwell vs rpm table should be a steady 100 for all engine speeds when running the AEM CDI... does this stand true for other non-AEM CDI boxes or by doing this will I experience roll-off?

When it was configured for Honda/Acure internal coil the coil dwell is set at 40 and when it is all cdi the dwell changed to 30.

I also noticed that the new coil seemed to generate a lot of heat FAST. Keep in mind I drove it for maybe 2 miles and at 4500rpms it died and killed the MSD box. I know that under low rpms too much coil dwell can cause excessive heat and lead to ignition box malfunctions... but I know that too little dwell will lead to misfiring up top. I wonder if the dwell of 30 on the ALL CDI option is too much therefore why it killed out with the new coil?

civicross

You're running an HVC coil on a MSD 6 box? That is your problem.

The HVC Coil MUST be used with the HVC ignition otherwise it won't work properly.
http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq...t.htm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The MSD 6 HVC Ignition is designed to be used with the new HVC Coil, PN 547-8250. The new E-Core design produces much higher current levels with no loss of output voltage. Special windings create an inductance that is matched to the MSD 6 HVC Ignition. Large amounts of copper are used in the windings that increases the current and also drastically reduces the operating temperature of the coil. More power and less heat!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try this coil instead:
http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq...t.htm

B18CXr

FYI:

On all my stock honda coil maps I bring the "dwell vs RPM table" down from 180ish to the high 140 mark below 4K, seems to save them.


I've had a lot of daily driven B-series guys fry their internal coils until I started doing this small, yet effective change.

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're running an HVC coil on a MSD 6 box? That is your problem.

The HVC Coil MUST be used with the HVC ignition otherwise it won't work properly.
http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq...t.htm

Try this coil instead:
http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq...t.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>

I ran this HVC coil on the Digital 6+ 2 years back when I was running hondata and it ran flawlessly. After EMS... it was hell On the side it specifically says
"USE WITH MSD 6 SERIES IGNITIONS ONLY" I could be wrong here... but it seems a bit coincidental that it only started doing this once I was running EMS.

Jack-
Right now I have the Dwell vs RPM set at 180 from 0-4k and from 4k-8k it goes down to about 90 on a nice curve.

civicross

Must be the AEM settings then. I have heard about that particular coil torching some of the MSD 6 boxes on some dirt track cars.

PrecisionH23a

up

PrecisionH23a

On the side of the HVC coil it says use with msd 6 series ignitions only.

The box is fried... I'm throwing a new one on and putting the hondata back on temporarily. I wanna see what type of power I can get out of this set-up before it goes in the drag EK.

Pikachu

Hmm. That's odd. I might have an identical issue. My car dies when it warms up. I'm using a MSD-SCI. I'll ditch it and see if it's the cause of my problem.

PrecisionH23a

Ok... I swapped the EMS with my hondata s200b today and tried the same 'new' coil I used last night and a different Digital 6+ unit and the ****** died about 2 miles on me AGAIN. I put the stock coil back on and it cranked right up.

WTF. I ran the MSD unit back in the fall for over 3 months with no problems now this? I know one of you pointed out you cant run the HVC coil but like I said I ran it a few years ago for a long time with no problems as well as last fall.

Obviously it is not the EMS dwell factors. I hate electrical problems.

PrecisionH23a

I called MSD today and luckily the new Digital 6+ and HVC coil has a 1 yr warrantee. You guys may not know this... but the most they cost to fix a complete ignition box is a measly $76 dollars. They charge a maximum of $35 for a coil.

Not too bad huh? They said they'd trouble shoot it and let me know what malfunctioned... hopefully that will let me know exactly what happened. I ******* hate electrical problems with a passion. I was planning on throwing the car on the dyno tomorrow too

*Boostwerks*

Damn that sucks.

I'm wondering what MSD says. I'm kinda interested about this, because I just installed a new Digi6+ into my setup with the ss coil. I will be running Hondata, and I don't really want this setup to go toast it self.

Just because I'm wondering...how do you have the box wired up?

PrecisionH23a

I had it wired up with speaker wire and duct tape. Is that wrong?

hehe jk. I had everything heat shrunk and soldered and everything was ran the proper way. I'll make sure and report back with what MSD says. For some reason I have speculation that one coil was going bad and it made the MSD took a ****. When the new coil was on the old box it could have fucked up a little... that way when the new box was on the 'new' coil had something wrong which later fucked the box up?

Who knows. I hate electrical problems. I ran this same set-up for over 2yrs with no problems then all of a sudden this? At least I know it wasn't the AEM EMS... however warm-up enrichment and throttle response while cold was much better with the hondata, lol. Damn FICV is ran all crazy due to the GE intake manifold.

*Boostwerks*

Yeah...but problems in general just suck ***.

Hell, I bent all 8 intake valves with no signs or anything. After work, my car just wouldn't start. Drove fine and everything.

Any idea when MSD is gonna get back with you?

PrecisionH23a

They said no longer than 14 days and everything will be ready to ship back. It could be sooner but they didn't want to give out any false promises.

Did you do a cylinder leakdown test on your engine that had the bent valves or it just stopped working all of a sudden?

herde1724

my buddy was having the same problem with his car..........lsvtec turbo with EMS, his was also dropping boost after 5k once we removed the msd and ran on a bone stock distributor problem was solved, we have since added a blaster ss external coil and had no problems since the motor is making 380 on 15lbs

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They said no longer than 14 days and everything will be ready to ship back. It could be sooner but they didn't want to give out any false promises.

Did you do a cylinder leakdown test on your engine that had the bent valves or it just stopped working all of a sudden?</TD></TR></TABLE>

We never did a leakdown test, but I did my own test on the head. Sprayed brake cleaner into the ports and all 8 intake valves leaked, while none of the exhaust leaked. We did however do a compression test which was about 80-50psi.

...We did testing with the car earlier in the day at 15psi with no problems (19deg timing on 11.5afr). however, we did a few 3rd gear pulls only to have it slam into the revlimiter (spun the tires so fast the valves must have floated). BUT, the damage must not have been that bad, since I drove another 50 miles to go to work that day without knowing anything was wrong. Then after work...it wouldn't start.

Blows ***.

D-tuned

I had nothing but problems with msd ignitions boxes on my car. I've had the msd 6, 6al and digital sci with the blaster ss coil and modified cap. i had terrible misfiring problems. I kept burning up coils. I tried everything and nothing seem to get rid of the misfires. I sent the ignition box back to msd along with all the coils I burned up. they returned the box to me and said everything tested out fine. I installed the box in my after again and the same **** happened. I converted to a C.O.P setup using 4 honda 954 coil sticks w/ harness(modified) and the AEM C2DI. I'm running a direct fire system. I've not had any misfires since I went to the C.O.P conversion. here is a picture of my setup.

XSIintegra

Very interesting...i'm going to check out the dwell maps in a couple days when I go back up to work on the DA. I'm running a Crane HI-6S and a MSD Blaster 2 coil. Felt and ran so much better after the install and no problems yet! :knock on wood:

PrecisionH23a

Nice COP's! I was contemplating on doing this as well.... I've been so damn busy I have not had any time to research this out though.

PrecisionH23a

Very good info

I cant find the coil and harness part # though... I have an account at honda so if I can get the number I can order them directly.

I'm thinking about running the AEM CDI now... I'll go ahead and sell that digital 6+ because I don't have time to screw around with misfiring.

PrecisionH23a

I'm sick of the digital 6. Once MSD sends it back it will be basically brand new and I'll sell it to one of my customers.

So I have two options that I'm contemplating about now... run the cbr 900 coils with harness ($210) or purchase 4 MSD blaster coils for $120.

Hmmmm.

PrecisionH23a

I went ahead with the CBR coils

*Boostwerks*

Hrmm...any idea if that coil/plug setup would work with Hondata?

I'm assuming it won't...

PrecisionH23a

No. It only works with the v-afc and AEM EMS.

b18cls1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No. It only works with the v-afc and AEM EMS. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it will run on any ecu capeable of firing 4 coils directly, or 2 for wasted spark the honda ecu has 1 coil driver.