** The E85 Thread **
11-16-2006, 10:03 AM
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** The E85 Thread **
**** Sorry, links in the first post are no longer being updated ****
First, let me say this is/will be a work in progress.
Im in no way the end all/know all about e85, but I know there is a decent amount of info on honda-tech about E85, but alot of it is scattered around, and even more of it is wrong.
So i decided i should start a thread to try to get some info out and answer some of the FAQ.
Ill be adding links, and tryin to keep it updated, so any good info you have will be moved up to this post
First here are some links to read:
Great site with alot of info.
http://e85fuel.com/index.php
a powerpoint slideshow with some good info:
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...999e8
another good E85 thread:
http://e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=44
from a E85 forum
http://e85forum.com/index.php
informative post from NASIOC forum:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forum...03341
wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
a thread on e85 lambda:
http://www.innovatemotorsports...=3175
Here's a really good link off the MegaSquirt site. Lot's of good technical information and conversions as always.(Even has a flow rate calculator)
http://www.megasquirt.info/flexfuel.htm
Here's one pertaining to how the wideband sensor operates specifically to ethanol.
http://www.megasquirt.info/PWC/
(look at links at bottom)
Here are some of the most asked questions:
What/if any modification is needed on the fuel system?
No modification is needed to run E85, a stock honda fuel system will work.
there are some Subaru guys that have been running e85 for 2+years on with no problems
here is a blip "Gasoline provides a protective coating on metal, sealing it from the corrosive effects of air and water."
in this link: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afd...i?660
if you are worried about, you can change the lines, it wont hurt anything.
edit: here is some info if you are running a fuel cell that is aluminum:
about the stock honda tanks:
How does it affect gas mileage?
this all depends on how you drive the car, typically, gas mileage will decrease ~10-25%
What A/F ratio do i tune E85 to?
generally when switching from gas to e85, ~30% more fuel and ~3* of timing will need to be added (this info takin from what servion has seen while tuning gas-->e85 cars
here is what servion says about timing:
What does "summer/winter blend" mean in relation to E85?
because it may be harder to start a car using ethynol during cold weather, they have 2 different blends.
the summer blend is 85% ethynol 15% gas
the winter blend is 70% ethynol 30% gas
the more gas in the winter blend is supposed to help on cold startups.
you will have to talk to the station owner (or the person that orders the e85 for the station) to find out when the change over to a winter blend.
What octane is E85?
it will vary from station to station alittle, but in general, the E85 octane is 105.
Modified by Kelly. at 12:28 PM 1/12/2007
Modified by Kelly. at 12:35 PM 1/12/2007
First, let me say this is/will be a work in progress.
Im in no way the end all/know all about e85, but I know there is a decent amount of info on honda-tech about E85, but alot of it is scattered around, and even more of it is wrong.
So i decided i should start a thread to try to get some info out and answer some of the FAQ.
Ill be adding links, and tryin to keep it updated, so any good info you have will be moved up to this post
First here are some links to read:
Great site with alot of info.
http://e85fuel.com/index.php
a powerpoint slideshow with some good info:
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...999e8
another good E85 thread:
http://e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=44
from a E85 forum
http://e85forum.com/index.php
informative post from NASIOC forum:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forum...03341
wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
a thread on e85 lambda:
http://www.innovatemotorsports...=3175
Here's a really good link off the MegaSquirt site. Lot's of good technical information and conversions as always.(Even has a flow rate calculator)
http://www.megasquirt.info/flexfuel.htm
Here's one pertaining to how the wideband sensor operates specifically to ethanol.
http://www.megasquirt.info/PWC/
(look at links at bottom)
Here are some of the most asked questions:
What/if any modification is needed on the fuel system?
No modification is needed to run E85, a stock honda fuel system will work.
there are some Subaru guys that have been running e85 for 2+years on with no problems
here is a blip "Gasoline provides a protective coating on metal, sealing it from the corrosive effects of air and water."
in this link: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afd...i?660
if you are worried about, you can change the lines, it wont hurt anything.
edit: here is some info if you are running a fuel cell that is aluminum:
Originally Posted by [url
www.nmma.org[/url] »]
Aluminum Fuel Tanks
In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased.
There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. .
The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.
Aluminum Fuel Tanks
In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased.
There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. .
The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.
Originally Posted by TrueNorthStar
According to them, aluminum + E85 = no no
I belive they are talking about using RAW aluminum. There are coatings that can be applied to aluminum to make them corrosion resistant like:
Anodizing
Hard Anodizing
Nickle Plating
ect
If you are going to be running an aluminum fuel cell do you self a favor and get it coated.
I belive they are talking about using RAW aluminum. There are coatings that can be applied to aluminum to make them corrosion resistant like:
Anodizing
Hard Anodizing
Nickle Plating
ect
If you are going to be running an aluminum fuel cell do you self a favor and get it coated.
Originally Posted by tony1
The stock honda tank is steel, never heard of corrosion problems with ethanol and steel.
this all depends on how you drive the car, typically, gas mileage will decrease ~10-25%
What A/F ratio do i tune E85 to?
Originally Posted by servion
E85 stoich is ~9.7:1, depending on the blend of your favorite gas station. Typical gasoline stoich is 14.7:1.
14.7:1 = lambda 1 for gasoline
9.7:1 = lambda 1 for e85
All widebands read lambda and then multiply by a constant for a given fuel type to calculate an air/fuel ratio. Have you ever seen where you select the fuel type for a wideband's units, and the displayed a/f changes a LOT even though the car is running the same?
If you set your wideband units to gasoline, it takes whatever lambda value it reads and multiplies if by 14.7. So, if your wideband is configured to read gasoline a/f, then just divide the a/f displayed by your wideband by 14.7 to get the lambda.
If your PLX reads 14.7:1, the lambda is (14.7/14.7) = 1.0
If your PLX reads 12:1, the lambda is (12/14.7) = .82
If your PLX reads 11:1, the lambda is (11/14.7) = .75
14.7:1 = lambda 1 for gasoline
9.7:1 = lambda 1 for e85
All widebands read lambda and then multiply by a constant for a given fuel type to calculate an air/fuel ratio. Have you ever seen where you select the fuel type for a wideband's units, and the displayed a/f changes a LOT even though the car is running the same?
If you set your wideband units to gasoline, it takes whatever lambda value it reads and multiplies if by 14.7. So, if your wideband is configured to read gasoline a/f, then just divide the a/f displayed by your wideband by 14.7 to get the lambda.
If your PLX reads 14.7:1, the lambda is (14.7/14.7) = 1.0
If your PLX reads 12:1, the lambda is (12/14.7) = .82
If your PLX reads 11:1, the lambda is (11/14.7) = .75
here is what servion says about timing:
Originally Posted by servion
Regarding timing, its something that definitely needs to be dyno tuned, like any setup. However, from the cars that I have tuned on both gasoline and e85, itsmeen consistent to say that e85 will want more advance than typical pump gas and less advance than race gas c16/maximal/etc.
EACH CAR IS DIFFERENT, PLEASE ONLY USE THIS AS A STARTING POINT,
WHEN IN DOUBT START WITH MORE FUEL/LESS TIMING AND GO FROM THERE
EACH CAR IS DIFFERENT, PLEASE ONLY USE THIS AS A STARTING POINT,
WHEN IN DOUBT START WITH MORE FUEL/LESS TIMING AND GO FROM THERE
because it may be harder to start a car using ethynol during cold weather, they have 2 different blends.
the summer blend is 85% ethynol 15% gas
the winter blend is 70% ethynol 30% gas
the more gas in the winter blend is supposed to help on cold startups.
you will have to talk to the station owner (or the person that orders the e85 for the station) to find out when the change over to a winter blend.
What octane is E85?
it will vary from station to station alittle, but in general, the E85 octane is 105.
Modified by Kelly. at 12:28 PM 1/12/2007
Modified by Kelly. at 12:35 PM 1/12/2007
Last edited by Kelly.; 04-17-2009 at 06:52 AM.
11-16-2006, 10:10 AM
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if i posted something wrong, please dont flame me,
post teh right info and some proof, and ill gladly edit my original post
post teh right info and some proof, and ill gladly edit my original post
11-16-2006, 10:20 AM
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Re: (Kelly.)
Oh my PLX-300 reads the same between gas the E85... I compared it to my lamda logs and they are in spec with my PLX-300...
I added about 10 degree's more timing and at no timing pull i love it... So far it has worked great for me..
Oh does anyone know if you do 50/50 ethonal and gas how much more fuel will you need? Im going to try 50/50 to see how much timing i can add.
I added about 10 degree's more timing and at no timing pull i love it... So far it has worked great for me..
Oh does anyone know if you do 50/50 ethonal and gas how much more fuel will you need? Im going to try 50/50 to see how much timing i can add.
11-16-2006, 11:41 AM
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here are just a few cars that have been tuned on e85
servion tuned:
900+hp mustang = https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1798697
turbo tuning on e85 = https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1743000
550whp on a dynojet=
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1887467
back to back comparison, pump gas vs e85 on a supercharged prelude:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1701028
e85 = blue graph , 91 = red graph
tuned by david@didrace.com
http://didraceengineering.com/...1.htm
he is running 20 psi w/ 20.5* of timing
Quickgti1.8t is running timing in the high 20's up top on E85
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
tony1:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...19867
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...02094
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1860629
PFIpros:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1821351
LudeFanatic:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...72316
Modified by Kelly. at 12:49 PM 1/12/2007
Modified by Kelly. at 3:02 PM 2/13/2007
servion tuned:
900+hp mustang = https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1798697
turbo tuning on e85 = https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1743000
550whp on a dynojet=
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1887467
back to back comparison, pump gas vs e85 on a supercharged prelude:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1701028
e85 = blue graph , 91 = red graph
tuned by david@didrace.com
http://didraceengineering.com/...1.htm
he is running 20 psi w/ 20.5* of timing
Quickgti1.8t is running timing in the high 20's up top on E85
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
tony1:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...19867
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...02094
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1860629
PFIpros:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1821351
LudeFanatic:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...72316
Modified by Kelly. at 12:49 PM 1/12/2007
Modified by Kelly. at 3:02 PM 2/13/2007
11-16-2006, 11:45 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
This is some great info, seems almost too good to be true. One of the other great things about E85 is that after a long dyno session, you don't smell like an old gas can...
11-16-2006, 12:10 PM
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Regarding timing, its something that definitely needs to be dyno tuned, like any setup. However, from the cars that I have tuned on both gasoline and e85, itsmeen consistent to say that e85 will want more advance than typical pump gas and less advance than race gas c16/maximal/etc.
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11-16-2006, 12:18 PM
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here is another car tuned on E85:
http://didraceengineering.com/...1.htm
tuned by david@didrace.com
he is running 20 psi w/ 20.5* of timing
http://didraceengineering.com/...1.htm
tuned by david@didrace.com
he is running 20 psi w/ 20.5* of timing
11-16-2006, 01:23 PM
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Re: (aaronISthrowed)
Definitely going to be a great thread. Keep the BS out
Next Spring, if I can get my hands on some E85 in NJ, I plan on seeing how much power can be pushed on an E85 system WITH Water/Alcohol/Meth injection.
Should be a *FUN* little project
Next Spring, if I can get my hands on some E85 in NJ, I plan on seeing how much power can be pushed on an E85 system WITH Water/Alcohol/Meth injection.
Should be a *FUN* little project
11-16-2006, 01:31 PM
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Re: (Quickgti1.8t)
can someone explain this.
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.
11-16-2006, 01:46 PM
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Re: (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can someone explain this.
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lambda is the standard value to describe a percentage between units of air and units of fuel.. stoich is the mixture ratio of 1 lambda where there is no excess fuel or oxygen left after combustion. For instance gasoline fuel achieves 1 lambda w/ 14.7:1 a/f ratio, while alcohol achieves the same 1 lambda at 6.4:1 a/f ratio.
Good thread by the way!
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lambda is the standard value to describe a percentage between units of air and units of fuel.. stoich is the mixture ratio of 1 lambda where there is no excess fuel or oxygen left after combustion. For instance gasoline fuel achieves 1 lambda w/ 14.7:1 a/f ratio, while alcohol achieves the same 1 lambda at 6.4:1 a/f ratio.
Good thread by the way!
11-16-2006, 02:52 PM
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Re: (DIRep972)
Im running my timing high 20's up top on E85
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
Modified by Quickgti1.8t at 4:29 PM 11/16/2006
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
Modified by Quickgti1.8t at 4:29 PM 11/16/2006
11-16-2006, 11:46 PM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can someone explain this.
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i meant to quote this question
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What A/F ratio do i tune E85 to?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alcohol achieves the same 1 lambda at 6.4:1 a/f ratio.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and since most wideband o2 displays dont read that low,
you would either:
have to change your wideband to display a e85 a/f ratio (which isnt likely)
or tune for 1 lambda via your management software
correct?
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?
i sorta understand it, but i cant exlpain it.
something to do with the different lambda values in refernce to stoich being different bewteen the 2 types of fuels.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i meant to quote this question
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What A/F ratio do i tune E85 to?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alcohol achieves the same 1 lambda at 6.4:1 a/f ratio.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and since most wideband o2 displays dont read that low,
you would either:
have to change your wideband to display a e85 a/f ratio (which isnt likely)
or tune for 1 lambda via your management software
correct?
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?
11-17-2006, 06:01 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and since most wideband o2 displays dont read that low,
you would either:
have to change your wideband to display a e85 a/f ratio (which isnt likely)
or tune for 1 lambda via your management software
correct?
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
this seems to have some good info in it... from the innovate forums...
http://www.innovatemotorsports...=3175
you would either:
have to change your wideband to display a e85 a/f ratio (which isnt likely)
or tune for 1 lambda via your management software
correct?
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
this seems to have some good info in it... from the innovate forums...
http://www.innovatemotorsports...=3175
11-17-2006, 07:29 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You absolutely can..
You just need to know what lambda you want to tune to and use the gas scale display. It's easier to understand for most of us since we could all relate to a/f ratio's of gasoline.
Example...
You want to tune to 1 lambda with E85. Use you a/f meter with gas settings and tune the car until you see 14.7 on the a/f display.
in other words, you cant slap in a wideband and tune e85 via the display, it needs to be read in lambda, not A/F ratio ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You absolutely can..
You just need to know what lambda you want to tune to and use the gas scale display. It's easier to understand for most of us since we could all relate to a/f ratio's of gasoline.
Example...
You want to tune to 1 lambda with E85. Use you a/f meter with gas settings and tune the car until you see 14.7 on the a/f display.
11-17-2006, 07:46 AM
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Re: (Quickgti1.8t)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quickgti1.8t »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im running my timing high 20's up top on E85
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
Modified by Quickgti1.8t at 4:29 PM 11/16/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
awsome car and good info in here i have been thinking about running my boosted d on this stuff since it seems to be easy to find around here
http://www.dpccars.com/car-mov...E.htm
Modified by Quickgti1.8t at 4:29 PM 11/16/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
awsome car and good info in here i have been thinking about running my boosted d on this stuff since it seems to be easy to find around here
11-17-2006, 08:06 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Enzo-Racing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enzo-Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You want to tune to 1 lambda with E85. Use you a/f meter with gas settings and tune the car until you see 14.7 on the a/f display. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i thought stoich for e85 is .7 ish lambda ?
You want to tune to 1 lambda with E85. Use you a/f meter with gas settings and tune the car until you see 14.7 on the a/f display. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i thought stoich for e85 is .7 ish lambda ?
11-17-2006, 08:32 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i thought stoich for e85 is .7 ish lambda ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
9.765:1 AFR is Stoich for E85. Lamda of 1 is Stoich regardless of fuel.
Modified by david@didrace.com at 11:51 AM 11/17/2006
9.765:1 AFR is Stoich for E85. Lamda of 1 is Stoich regardless of fuel.
Modified by david@didrace.com at 11:51 AM 11/17/2006
11-17-2006, 08:35 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
kelly, don't think of lambda as an a/f ratio.. lambda indicates a rich or lean condition relative to stoich. (stoich is always 1 lambda and always the value at where no extra air/fuel is left in the mixture)... The fuel qualities of gasoline differ from the fuel qualities of alcohol and this results in different a/f ratio's to achieve the same lambda. for instance, .8 lambda relates to an 11.8:1 a/f ratio w/ gasoline and a 5.1:1 a/f ratio w/ alcohol. Google a lambda:air fuel ratio chart and you should be able to see how all the values relate. I don't know the actual e85 values that relate but if you tune for lambda you don't need to know.
11-17-2006, 08:35 AM
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Re: ** The E85 Thread ** (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i thought stoich for e85 is .7 ish lambda ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
compared to gas.
I think you are confused. lamba is used because no matter what stoich will be 1 and a good value for safe boosting is .7ish (to start off). what ever this translates into AFR doesn't really matter since lambda is used
i thought stoich for e85 is .7 ish lambda ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
compared to gas.
I think you are confused. lamba is used because no matter what stoich will be 1 and a good value for safe boosting is .7ish (to start off). what ever this translates into AFR doesn't really matter since lambda is used
11-17-2006, 08:49 AM
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E85 stoich is ~9.7:1, depending on the blend of your favorite gas station. Typical gasoline stoich is 14.7:1.
14.7:1 = lambda 1 for gasoline
9.7:1 = lambda 1 for e85
All widebands read lambda and then multiply by a constant for a given fuel type to calculate an air/fuel ratio. Have you ever seen where you select the fuel type for a wideband's units, and the displayed a/f changes a LOT even though the car is running the same?
If you set your wideband units to gasoline, it takes whatever lambda value it reads and multiplies if by 14.7. So, if your wideband is configured to read gasoline a/f, then just divide the a/f displayed by your wideband by 14.7 to get the lambda.
If your PLX reads 14.7:1, the lambda is (14.7/14.7) = 1.0
If your PLX reads 12:1, the lambda is (12/14.7) = .82
If your PLX reads 11:1, the lambda is (11/14.7) = .75
Personally, whenever I am tuning a car that is not on gasoline I tune using lambda. That way you don't have to worry about odd mixtures (such as winder blend e85 or God knows what else the owner put in the car's tank).
14.7:1 = lambda 1 for gasoline
9.7:1 = lambda 1 for e85
All widebands read lambda and then multiply by a constant for a given fuel type to calculate an air/fuel ratio. Have you ever seen where you select the fuel type for a wideband's units, and the displayed a/f changes a LOT even though the car is running the same?
If you set your wideband units to gasoline, it takes whatever lambda value it reads and multiplies if by 14.7. So, if your wideband is configured to read gasoline a/f, then just divide the a/f displayed by your wideband by 14.7 to get the lambda.
If your PLX reads 14.7:1, the lambda is (14.7/14.7) = 1.0
If your PLX reads 12:1, the lambda is (12/14.7) = .82
If your PLX reads 11:1, the lambda is (11/14.7) = .75
Personally, whenever I am tuning a car that is not on gasoline I tune using lambda. That way you don't have to worry about odd mixtures (such as winder blend e85 or God knows what else the owner put in the car's tank
).
