cksnah252

Whats up guys I have a noob question that needs to be answered. I have a 13.5 compression (well I used the zeal c/r calculator and got 13.5 static c/r) b20v that made 229whp and 168tq. It was tuned on 93 octane... Now I am heading up to the drag strip and I pumped 4gals worth of e85 just to test it to see how the motor would respond to it. Its running more lean after pumping e85 in, and I dont know if I should get a syringe and pump the tank out.. When I WOT, my a/f goes between 13.2-13.8. It idles at 14.7-15.4. Now should I burn it out, or should pump it out of my tank so it doesnt damage my motor? Please guys help me out!

I know I'm an idiot for trying to test it out by pumping 4 gallons of e85 into my tank.....😓

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

It probably didn't do any damage bc its NA, not terribly lean and you hopefully limited the time spent in lean. If you want to drive around normally and stay out of WOT then you can burn it up like usual. Or if you know how to adjust your tune just add 10-15% to the overall fuel trim for the remainder until you fill it back up with gasoline.

cksnah252

I will try to burn it out and get back to the forum! My car runs around 13.3-13.9 just cruising 65mph on the freeway with 93 octane (its rich i know). When I mixed it with the e85, my a/f is now between 14.9-16.0 at 65mph on the freeway.. Should I be worrying? Also I dont know how to mess with the fuel, would you be able to help me out if I upload the map from my s300?

EDIT nvm I looked it up on how to adjust the fuel trim.. I dont want to touch it, just incase something goes wrong!

Here is the s300 map from my tuner
http://www.filedropper.com/b20v

m4xwellmurd3r

You could try increasing the fuel by about 10-20% more and see if it gets the afrs back to where they should be. Its easy to do. Just hook up your laptop, download the calibration from the ecu and save it, then adjust the fuel trim, upload it to the ecu, then save it as an alternate name so you have one for normal gas and one with the e85 mix.

cksnah252

ok m4x, i had to bring it up to 18-20% and the car drives a lot better! It was running really lean before i changed the numbers on the overall trim! When I refuel back to my normal octane? Should I drive it til I get it down to 3/4 of fuel left (thats how much fuel I had before I pumped 4 gals of e85) and fill it back up then revert the overall fuel trim to where it was?

VegasInvasion

Even at a 13.5:1 CR you shouldn't have any issues cruising at 16:1 AFR on E85. But your AFRs at WOT are a little risky. Personally I would stick to E85 on that setup, you'll make a significant gain and less risk of detonating. If it's tuned correctly anyway.
Otherwise, if it were my car and I wasn't sticking with E85, I would drain the tank.

cksnah252

I know what you're saying, good advice. I was thinking of having 2 settings. One for 93 which is what my motor is tuned for right now, and the other for e85... I mean is that possible? On s300, I found settings for flex fuel which I would assume its e85...? Can anyone chime in?

VegasInvasion

If you want to use the flex fuel option you can start reading here
Hondata s300 Programmable ECU Guide
It's just an additional sensor for the fuel system that has a basic fuel/timing scale.
But I don't trust it, you can't get as tight of a tune with constantly varying ethanol content. It would be ideal to use the secondary maps for a full E85 tune. And probably end up costing you less. It's not easy to tune flex fuel.

cksnah252

I was thinking about that too... Like make a switch when I pump e85.. Hopefully I dont need to advance or retard the timing... Thanks a lot guys!

OneBadTurboCRV

You can't just make one or two tunes unfortunately either. Depending on your fuel levels when you switch fuels it will change the final ethanol content. It also depends on which end you are on for content levels on how much it really affects your tune. For my N/A B20V at 65% content versus 85% (which is a extreme rarity to actually get 85% around me) it is a rather large variation in required fuel.

I bought the S300 v3 upgrade specifically for "Flex Fuel" portion. It doesn't work worth a **** honestly since it is globally done. Too many spots usually want different percentages of increased or decreased fuel. Little did I know you only need the v3 if you wanted to use a GM Flex Fuel Sensor. I already had a Zeitronixs Ethanol Content Analyzer for my needs. If you want a true flex fuel EMS then you need to get at least a AEM V2 for actual map blending.

F22Master

Not sure if you can do the same with the S300, but I believe that would be the "most proper" way to do both gas and E85 tunes.

cksnah252

If thats the case, I would have to ditch my s300 for the aem v2 huh? Unless you can some how run it parallel along with the s300. I spoke with my tuner about it and he said I would have to upgrade my walbro fuel pump and my 440cc injectors to 1000cc. Is that true??

m4xwellmurd3r

Maybe not right up to id1000s but I would double your fueling capacity to be safe if you switch from straight gas to e85

cksnah252

When I added 19% overall fuel trim, I dont know if it was me but my car felt like it had more low end with e85...

VegasInvasion

general rule of thumb for E85 is 30% more fuel. doubling your capacity is a good idea since most people upgrade parts periodically, but 600cc as a minimum for 250hp. new fuel pump for sure.

cksnah252

So what you're saying is that my 440cc rc injectors and walbro 255lph isnt enough.. Darn it! Ok if running e85 requires 30% more fuel, is there anyway I can tell if my injectors are maxing out? Cousin told me that I can analyze that by having a laptop hooked up to my ecu (s300) and checking out the duty cycle when I WOT. Would that be a good place to start?

OneBadTurboCRV

Yes.

VegasInvasion

In theory the duty cycle should e a good indicator, but with an aftermarket fuel pump the number tends to be wrong. Especially for e85, since people don't know how to properly set up the fuel trim before they start modifying the fuel tables.

cksnah252

Yeah, I just filled up my car again with e85 today with 8 gallons. I then brought my overall fuel trim to 30% (tuner had it at 6% with 93 octane) after filling it up. I tried to keep the a/f to stay in the same range as where the 93 octane was at when WOT. Man, what a difference it was! I also checked the duty cycle when I WOT before filling the car with e85 today, and the highest at 8500rpm was 85%. Man thats almost maxing it out! After the e85 fill up and overall fuel trim to 30%, my duty cycle was now around 93-98%. Is it really necessary to upgrade my fuel pump though? Same goes for my injectors.. But at the same time, since its all motor, wouldn't anything over 440cc be an overkill just to run e85? Sorry guys I am still doing my research on this topic, so dont flame me!

OneBadTurboCRV

If you have a stock pump you should upgrade to at least a Walbro 255. A real one is under $100 so it's not that bad.

cksnah252

I already upgraded my fuel pump to a walbro 255 since i swapped my motor in.. Im just wondering if my 440cc injectors is sufficient enough for e85.. .. People are telling me its more than enough and some is saying i need bigger injectors.. Hmmm...

OneBadTurboCRV

Your fuel pump is fine. For the injectors it really depends on what your car wants though... I have a similar build but little lower compression at similar horsepower and on E85 with 550cc injectors at 43 psi base fuel pressure my Hondata duty cycle chart says I am almost maxing them out...

cksnah252

I see... Hmm OneBadTurboCRV, what do you think? What size injectors do u suggest on my build? Do you think 660cc is good enough? Also one last thing my tuner mentioned is that I should get a aftermarket fuel pressure regulator as well.. Is it necessary?

OneBadTurboCRV

If you are going to upgrade you may as well get an injector that is proven to work flawlessly with E85 even if it sits. That would be some ID1000's or one of Injection Dynamics lower CC models. Up to you really and what fits your budget. Plus the resale value and demographic is much better and wider range than any other injectors.

The FPR is absolutely unnecessary for practically all builds that are N/A and a majority of builds that are forced induction as well. This is only needed if you have a ridiculously high pressure and need to bring it down (unlikely) or if you maxed out the flow of your injectors or fuel pump at a low pressure and need a little more from your setup.

cksnah252

Will do, I guess I'm gonna have to upgrade to ID1000 even tho its a bit pricey... I mean, RC Injectors should be fine too, no?