cityofcaterpillars

So I want to learn how to tune by myself. I have an 94 civic with d15z6, intake and exhaust. I know that this probably doesn't require a tune but I plan on going turbo later on and would like to learn now. I've been doing alot of reading and am still a little lost. Would this be everything I need to start my tuning journey?

Ostrich 2.0, Xtreme HULOG Honda USB Datalog Interface, and software?

am I right that if I use this setup I would not need a chip burner?

Thanks

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

you wont need a chip burner if you plan to keep the ostrich there permanently

and pgmfi.org is back online. check out that page. there you find almost everything.

you do need a wideband and a laptop preferably not with windows 10 its buggy with almost everything...

cityofcaterpillars

Yep I was on that site for hours. Lots of info. So this would be a good setup to begin with? Finding a laptop without windows 8 or 10 might be tricky

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

if you haven't got the hardware yet

I recommend buying demon/Neptune package instead

its a bit more but well worth it


with that you have an option to switch between crome and Neptune software..
that way you can try both..
lol and experience the pain of working with crome like we all did

but crome has its perks.. its (almost) free and ability to burn chips is worth it when you have multiple Hondas...
but Neptune is much easier to work with as far as things working every time consistently

Full_Tilt

^ I agree with the above.

If you can comprehend and adsorb the info on the pgmfi.org library, then you are off to a good start on understanding the hardware.

The rest is voodoo, I mean, tuning theory...

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Exactly the kind of engine you should be learning to tune on. It will be hard to blow it up so the learning curve isn't as steep. Get your mind around a stockish NA engine, study up on turbos, and go from there.

I wouldn't waste my time with the Ostrich/hulog (and probably Crome free, since being cheap about it is usually the reason for this hardware)... Just go for NepTune/Demon or Hondata.

cityofcaterpillars

Thanks for the replies. Yeah being cheap is def the reason for that particular setup. I was looking at neptune and demon but I really cant afford it right now. I just want something basic and easy to learn on. Really simple is better for me. I tend to get overwhelmed with alot of options.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

Get the demon without neptune license then
You can buy a license later since demon has serial number
So you can start with crome/demon combo

booboo782

Also read this guide that has been floating in here around for a while (attached). It is written specifically for Crome, but the underlying tuning concepts apply across the board. It was like solid gold info to me when learning how to tune, the concepts and tuning theory in here are right on the money especially in the Forced Induction sections. (Credit VegasInvasion, I think?)

I can sum up my whole self-taught tuning education in a couple of paragraphs:

1) Tuning Air/Fuel is easy - read the wideband, datalog, adjust where needed. Rinse and repeat until A/F is happy (research research research!). The only hard part there is making it consistent across ALL temp ranges (ECT and IAT) in the compensation tables. Also watch out for heatsoak with the IAT sensor, as it can have you chasing your tail for weeks - recognize when it is happening and deal with it accordingly with info from articles here on HT.

2) Ign. Timing was my area of "Black Magic". There is no gauge that tells you real-time if you are on the right track. Tuning ignition timing takes study, time, patience, learning to read spark plugs, dyno trips, knock sensors etc. If you do this part wrong (and it is easy to do depending on the det. tolerance of your fuel) you will most certainly punch a nice hole in a piston or break ringlands etc. Start conservative and go from there slowly.

Hope this helps. Take your time and study as much as you can on the subject - there is plenty of info out there to help get you started. Ask your questions on this board if you get stumped, all of these guys on HT here are nice and willing to help out. Your own real world experience will take you the rest of the way. Hope this helps. Good luck.

cityofcaterpillars

Thanks guys. Good stuff. So here are the two options I'm looking at.

Options 1

Ostrich
Hulog
Innovate MTX-L Wideband Kit

This is a kit and comes to $369 but its basically everything I would need besides software

Option 2

Demon 2 eProm Emulator and Datalogging Hardware

Comes to $249 for just the board. So I would need a wideband kit and software. Will this be everything I need?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Yep. The only plot hole that I see is that you're going to try and tough your way through with Crome Free in the name of saving money. I think you're going to run up against the limitations of the free version pretty quickly, and then you'll be purchashing a NepTune license for $175, which is $25 more than if you just bought the package in the first place. Just my $.02

Also, pick up a 6' or 10' extended usb cable from Fry's or whatever you have available. You'll thank me later.

cityofcaterpillars

so Demon w/neptune is $400. plus Innovative MTX-L wideband is $200. So I'm at $600 all together.

Another question. The Ostrich package says that I can use Neptune with it. Whats the difference between Ostrich and Hulog vs Demon? Also, what are opinions on Wideband. is the Innovative the most cost effective one?

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

Cant use neptune with ostrich
The hardware supports it but theres no way to license it

Trust me

I have both kits and on average i spend about 50% more time troubleshooting crome with ostrich

In the end it will cost you less to have a kit that works
You spend less gas tuning it...
And also please avoid mtz-l kit. It really sucks you will go through many sensors before you throw it in the garbage just like many people already did

cityofcaterpillars

well then demon it is. So what are your recommendations for a wide band? Do I need the gauge too if Im going to be tuning with a laptop?

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

yep.the mtx-l is a controller built in the gauge

a lot of people have issues with them because of somewhat crappy sensor control. sensors go out rather often and its 60-80 bucks to replace

you can go with plx or the new aem or 14point7
check out diyefi forums they have a very detailed discussion about widebands. and also user ratings on each brand/model it helped me a lot to pick my next one

mtx-l is like Chinese electronics. most people's sensors last a reasonable time but a lot of them don't.
and when innovate tech support told me that its normal to replace the sensor every year I gave up on them.
the professional models dotn have issues tho. but they are more expensive

cityofcaterpillars

Ok. Welp guess I'm going with Demon w/neptune and AEM wideband. It's funny all that costs almost as much as the car it's going into. Thank you. Are there any useful sites out there on this kind of stuff that are actually still active?

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

Theres alot of info here
B20vtec
Hondahookup
Just search google for "vtec doesnt kick in" and you find all the forums

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I'm partial to the PLX. I'm not sure if they've gotten better, but the AEMs have been known to respond slowly.

1988dxsedan

iTrader: (2)

Ive been running an mtxl for 3 years now. Replaced the sensor once. They were smart and used a common bosch sensor. Got it at autozone for 40 couple bucks. I calibrate it twice a season. I have heard they have sensor issues, im sure there are more reliable options but personally I havnt experienced anything terrible.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

Diyefi forums have a great thread with many details about widebands
They have tests for reaponce speed etc