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Old 07-26-2008, 11:51 PM   #1
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Default E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit.....

Can anyone give me some Input on this kit?

http://www.change2e85.com/serv...honda

Seems kind if Iffy.... I clicked on my year and the Injector looks nothing like a Honda/Acura injector.

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (Oregon)

Talking about these?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Those look like the injector harness connectors - not the injectors themselves.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (CARMA_626)

Yeah, Do you think its really just a Plug and Play Kind of thing? I thought you had to run bigger injectors,Bigger fuel pump,Stainless line etc..
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:17 AM   #4
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Nevermind the fact that you need to retune the ECU.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:33 AM   #5
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Converting to E85 is more than just adding 30% more fuel. IIRC, the stoich for E85 is NOT 14.7 so your o2 sensor is going to be adjusting the duty cycle for a gasoline's stoich.

Not to mention possible problems with your fuel lines, etc.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (Oregon)

Sander Marques and others have dealt with E85 quite a bit recently. Maybe we can move the thread to get some of them to comment about the benefits and disadvantages, generally.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (George Knighton)

e85 is 8.9:1 at stoich, i believe. What is that kit supposed to have in it? they just sell you larger injectors and thats about it? or what? i took a look and all i saw was a $400 price tag and not a whole lot else.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (sanimalp)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon
Yeah, Do you think its really just a Plug and Play Kind of thing? I thought you had to run bigger injectors,Bigger fuel pump,Stainless line etc..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanimalp
e85 is 8.9:1 at stoich, i believe. What is that kit supposed to have in it? they just sell you larger injectors and thats about it? or what? i took a look and all i saw was a $400 price tag and not a whole lot else.
No need for larger injectors, ecu reflash, or bigger fuel pump! Converting to E85 is as easy as:

Step One
Locate the fuel injection connectors. Injectors can be almost any color.
In the picture below, the connectors are yellow. Injectors are located above the
valve cover in the intake manifold.

Click the image to open in full size.

Step Two
Release the fuel injection connector. There are six types of connectors.
Each has its own unique release method of depressing a quick release.

Click the image to open in full size.

Step Three
The picture below shows one set of male and female connectors on the Full Flex. Take all sets and pull them through the engine compartment and bring them close to each injector. It's easier to pull the connectors through the engine compartment that it is the pull the Full Flex computer. So find a good mounting spot and then fish your wires.

Click the image to open in full size.

Step Four
Now we plug the connector on the fuel injector and the other
connector will plug into the fuel injection wiring harness.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Step Five
Connect the black ground wire on the negative battery terminal or a grounding
point within the engine compartment.

Click the image to open in full size.

Step Six
Double check that all of the are plugged snuggly. Mount the FFI Platinum with self-tapping screws, double sided tape or zip ties. Also make sure that the FFI Platinum's cables are not touching any hot surfaces. Use ample zip ties to make sure the wires wont move over time. Your FFI Platinum is installed! Start your engine andmake sure that it is running smoothly and the check engine light remains off.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Step Seven
Upon completion of the installation, drive for about ten miles. If your vehicle is running smoothly and the check engine light remains off, then head to your E85 Station. Fill up the vehicle with 50% of gasoline and 50% of E85. This will allow the system to create a map of the burning process. Your next tank should be all E85. Subsequent fill ups can be any combination of gas or ethanol.



Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:34 AM   #9
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Maybe it just "Re-flashes" the ECU to make it run on E85... What tunes are out there for Honda's? Hondata?chrome? Kpro?
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (Oregon)

I would suggest getting a real EMS and not whatever the crap that is. You shouldn't need to upgrade your injectors. I have a OBD2 D-series VTEC with I/H/E otherwise stock, AEM EMS, and I'm running OBD1 VTEC injectors (240CC). My max duty cycle is 45%. I was told by the tuner that this makes me a good candidate to run E85. The only problem is that there are only 3 E85 stations where I live and none of them are conveniently close. But I have played with the idea of having two fuel calibrations so that I can switch between gas and E85.

Unfortunately the price savings aren't really there... since the trucks that bring E85 run on diesel, the price of E85 is tied closely to the price of oil. So now I'm contemplating running natural gas. Something like 65 c ents a gallon...
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (baller status)

$4.49 for 92 octane vs $3.18 for E85. The savings are there for me in My town for my DD, I just want to figure out what i can do to run E85 in my DD (EG hatch vx)
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (Oregon)

Wow, this thread is almost scary.

I've run E85 in my turbo'd delsol for about 8 months now, and have tuned several other cars to run it. There's PLENTY of info on this in the FI forum.

For searchers sake, I just want to point out some things

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTIWWOP
the stoich for E85 is NOT 14.7 so your o2 sensor is going to be adjusting the duty cycle for a gasoline's stoich.

Not to mention possible problems with your fuel lines, etc.
This is quite incorrect. The O2 sensor has no idea what kind of fuel is being used. O2 sensors output lambda, and stoich for gasoline or E85 is both 1 lambda. I tuned my own cars with a standard wideband O2, as does everyone who tuned E85 setups.

The fuel line myth is still unfounded. Many people confuse the corrosive characteristics of methanol with ethanol. Methanol will royally screw some things up. It'll make you go blind if you drink it. The distillation process controls methanol versus ethanol output. Point is, ethanol is much safer than methanol, in addition to the fact our pump fuel has had ethanol content for years.

I sometimes suspect that the "ethanol conversion" beliefs are somewhat created in order to discourage people from converting their cars and the result being mismanaged. It is technically illegal, according to EPA standards, to convert a car to run E85.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon
$4.49 for 92 octane vs $3.18 for E85. The savings are there for me in My town for my DD, I just want to figure out what i can do to run E85 in my DD (EG hatch vx)
This definitely is the ONLY time running E85 is cost effective considering current pricing trends. If your car does not entirely warrant 91+ octane, then the cost to run 87 or 89 will be cheaper due to mpg losses on E85.

In my DelSol, running 880 injectors, a 4 hour tune, and a GT3082 with mixed driving I got between 17-19 mpg consistently. Worth it for me versus 93, but not by much. Throw in the torque gain and drop in spool time though, and it was definitely worth it.

Everyone just NEEDS to understand, that if your car does not warrant running 91+ octane, then it is NOT cost effective to run E85. If you have a SOHC with an I/H/E it's truly NOT worth it by any means.


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Old 07-27-2008, 06:50 PM   #13
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if you do the conversion, this still with not put you into the smog exempt class.

anyone know anything about propane conversions for out honda's?
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (RC000E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC000E
In my DelSol, running 880 injectors, a 4 hour tune, and a GT3082 with mixed driving I got between 17-19 mpg consistently. Worth it for me versus 93, but not by much. Throw in the torque gain and drop in spool time though, and it was definitely worth it.

17-19 mpg Click the image to open in full size. That sounds a Bit off.. even if you where running 93 octane tune.

My best friend has a 00 hatch with a Built low compression B20B Boosted with a GT35R making around 420 whp, He Gets 280 out of His tank tuned on pump gas. 1/2 in boost 1/2 out.

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (Oregon)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon
$4.49 for 92 octane vs $3.18 for E85. The savings are there for me in My town for my DD, I just want to figure out what i can do to run E85 in my DD (EG hatch vx)
You're not taking into account the fact that E85 gives you much less mpg than gasoline.

Converting to E85 may not make you smog exempt, but so what? Let them run the car and it will pass with flying colors! But if you're in CA you'll need to make everything look stock. Not that hard to pass on an OBD1 car.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: E85 Honda Civic Conversion Kit..... (RC000E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC000E
Wow, this thread is almost scary.

I've run E85 in my turbo'd delsol for about 8 months now, and have tuned several other cars to run it. There's PLENTY of info on this in the FI forum.

For searchers sake, I just want to point out some things

This is quite incorrect. The O2 sensor has no idea what kind of fuel is being used. O2 sensors output lambda, and stoich for gasoline or E85 is both 1 lambda. I tuned my own cars with a standard wideband O2, as does everyone who tuned E85 setups.

The fuel line myth is still unfounded. Many people confuse the corrosive characteristics of methanol with ethanol. Methanol will royally screw some things up. It'll make you go blind if you drink it. The distillation process controls methanol versus ethanol output. Point is, ethanol is much safer than methanol, in addition to the fact our pump fuel has had ethanol content for years.

I sometimes suspect that the "ethanol conversion" beliefs are somewhat created in order to discourage people from converting their cars and the result being mismanaged. It is technically illegal, according to EPA standards, to convert a car to run E85.

This definitely is the ONLY time running E85 is cost effective considering current pricing trends. If your car does not entirely warrant 91+ octane, then the cost to run 87 or 89 will be cheaper due to mpg losses on E85.

In my DelSol, running 880 injectors, a 4 hour tune, and a GT3082 with mixed driving I got between 17-19 mpg consistently. Worth it for me versus 93, but not by much. Throw in the torque gain and drop in spool time though, and it was definitely worth it.

Everyone just NEEDS to understand, that if your car does not warrant running 91+ octane, then it is NOT cost effective to run E85. If you have a SOHC with an I/H/E it's truly NOT worth it by any means.

X2

You read my mind. This is almost word for word exactly what my response was going to be to this question.
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