hoffdaddy

Ok, I have a d17a1 nonvtec that is getting a d16 rotating assembly (PG6 pistons), head ported and polished, custom intake and exhaust, adjustable cam gear. The rest is completely stock, stock d16 parts are going in it. It could possibly get a small turbo, then I'll put in 450cc injectors and 255 Lph fuel pump and that's all. I honestly couldn't see how a basically d16 wouldn't run off a d17 tune. I know a bit about tuning and ecus, but I'm kind of stuck here because I want to take advantage of my mods, turbo or N/A. It just needs a new fuel map flashed right? Maybe some other things, but I can keep the stock ecu and I don't need to buy an expensive one?

B20VtecVillain

Most people run factory Honda ECUs, they are just chipped to allow them to be tuned or "flashed" as you say. Basically you decide which software you would like to tune with, have your stock ecu chipped to be compatible with that software and then hook up to a laptop via usb and upload the fuel, timing maps etc that you have set in the program. You do not need a full standalone ecu system for your setup.

hoffdaddy

Thank you, exactly the answer I was looking for. Is there a chip/software that you would recommend to me? I don't want to spend a ton and I would like to keep obd2. Also if it can be flashed via usb with a computer does that mean I will have the tuning software on my computer to change maps etc? I'll get the car on a dyno for a proper tune, but I'd like to give a shot at tuning myself, just tinker without killing the engine, see what happens and learn.

B20VtecVillain

Well honestly the best software out there I believe is Hondata S300 followed by Neptune/RTP Demon. These both however can be fairly expensive, and might be more than you personally need for such a basic street setup anyway. The most cost effective tuning method is Crome, As the software itself is free and a reputable company such as Phearable.net can chip/socket your provided obd1 ecu to run it for about $70, or sell you a pre chipped ecu for under $200. Either way it will come ready to run with a basemap for your specific setup that will be safe and quite efficient to run until you get it on the dyno. The interface for Crome and Neptune can be downloaded to your laptop for free now if you want to run it and get a feel for how it works. Crome will allow you to upload any tune you build directly to your chipped ecu via usb cable for free, whereas the Neptune software will allow you to build a tune for free with the software but you will need to pay for a license if you want to actually load it to an ecu.

B20VtecVillain

As for staying OBD 2, those ECUs do not allow for much in the way of tuning parameters. Converting to an obd1 ecu is very simple though. All you need is the chipped ond1 ecu and an obd2 to obd1 jumper harness. The harness has an end that clips to your factory obd2 harness where your ecu is currently in the car, and then the opposite end of the harness has the correct clip to properly meet up with an obd1 ecu. There is no cutting or splicing involved and all of your check engine light functions etc. Will work as normal. There really is no Downside to obd1, especially when modifying the vehicle.

hoffdaddy

Their prices actually look pretty good I can for sure do that. I have a few questions though. What is the difference between their standard and premium basemap? If I actually tune it I shouldn't need a more expensive basemap right? Also it asks injector size. I will be starting N/A with stock injectors, can I put bigger injectors in shortly after and it not matter what I type in the box? Lastly they ask for an obd2a or b conversion harness. What is the difference?

0HAMOTORSPORTS

Just to make sure I didn't miss something in your questions - what vehicle is this engine in? Is this in an 01-05 civic, or did you install the D17a1 into an older chassis?

hoffdaddy

I'm actually looking for a car right now, I only have an engine but I'm getting a plan together so I can be prepared. I want it to go in an 01-05 manual trans, if for some reason I don't use a gen 7 civic I will buy an engine harness for the d17. I'm just going to buy a whole unit from phearable because I don't have an obd1 ecu. So I don't think it would matter what gen civic it would go in, I'll just say an em2 for now.

B20VtecVillain

The type of vehicle matters because that's what will determine which OBD the harness in the car will be. If this is your first build of this type, going thru and rewiring the entire car is probably an endeavor beyond what you should get into. The harness is tied into nearly everything and there is a lot more to re-harnessing a chassis than just plugging in the new harness. As for their basemap vs premium, that it something to ask them directly as far as the differences in service. For your injectors, the basemap will be done according to your provided info. If you say your running 270cc, that's what it will be tuned for. If you upgrade to larger down the road, you will have to adjust the tune appropriately. The best way around would probably be to have the basemap set for the stock units and then wait to upgrade your injectors until you actually go further with the build and then adjust for them when it is all tuned on the dyno. Bigger injectors alone are a supporting modification, and will not gain you any power by themselves so there really is no sense in running a bigger injector until it is necessary due to increased power and thus increased demand for fuel.

mojo27

checkout www.hypnotikmotorsports.com

They sold me everything I needed and did a good job and cheap. I had my 2 other friends order ecus which came today and they are very happy as well. Fast shipping too they ordered their ecus on Thursday and got then on Monday.

B20VtecVillain

There are many companies that will offer competitive pricing for tuning services so really it's up to the buyer to
Do the research and pick what they feel is best for them. I personally would never run an off the shelf basemap for anything more than driving the car to the location where it is to get tuned. Plenty of people run around all the time on basemap a, but to me it's just a starting point to get a car up and running. At a bare minimum I feel a wideband and other monitoring tools should be used anytime you are operating on a non build specific tune to prevent a potentially catastrophic engine failure.

hoffdaddy

Ok cool, I won't order an ecu until I have a chassis. That's all I needed to know. I would have made sure the ecu was made specially for my engine and the car I get. I just wanted to know the details and how
it's all going to go down once I'm ready to order.

B20VtecVillain

That will probably be your best bet. Ordering a tuned ecu before you have a vehicle would be like buying wheels before having a car. Once you buy a certain type your stuck finding things based on only what works. Starting from scratch allows you to customize your vehicle search and then once you get into something you like. Then you buy parts that will suit that particular build. Who knows, you might find a killer deal on a B series EM1 and scratch the single cam idea all together. Etc etc.

hoffdaddy

I won't abandon the d17 I got it for cheap and it's not costing a whole lot, I'm building it and selling it.

B20VtecVillain

So your building this as a project to sell? If that's the case I would strongly advise you to reconsider anything you spend performance wise on the build. The D17 is kind of the odd ball of the Honda engine family and there aren't very many people out there interested in that particular setup. The D17 is cheap in general, very abundant, and not very sought after as far as engine setups go. You would likely be better off just keeping it stock and going that route if your looking to sell it. Do a little more reading here on HT and you will find a wealth of information.

hoffdaddy

Well I'll keep it a while it's something that will put a smile on my face... It's different lol not very many people destroke their d17. I think it's pretty cool, but it will get sold some time.