basemap sharing
04-20-2014, 10:28 PM
#1
basemap sharing
can we try this again please?
share the following basemaps that are most popular garage builds
only dyno tuned basemaps, no questionable stuff tuned in backroads with no wideband
just for the specific engines listed below in order to keep is simple and helpful
single cams and others are welcome too keep it within internally stock engines tho
gsr with boltons
gsr with single runner
gsr with single runner +boltons
b16 with boltons
b16 with ITR stle manifold
b16 with itr manifold + boltons
b20z2(jdm b20b) with boltons
b20vtec with boltons
b16/gsr/b20v with itr cams
and other popular variations such as 4-2-1,4-1 headers etc
basemap is a good starting point that will potentially save a lot of time on the dyno for your tuner and save your engine from damage before you get it to the dyno.
but please take your car to a dyno.
example on my own car(in the signature)
switching from an OEM intake pipe to a custom intake pipe brought my afrs from 13.5 tojust under 15 afr at wot in vtec which is bad.
so even a slight modification will affect the fueling especially running in open loop( which the ecu does regardless after certain load and rpm is reached)
even stock unmodified ecu runs in open loop during high load and high rpm
share the following basemaps that are most popular garage builds
only dyno tuned basemaps, no questionable stuff tuned in backroads with no wideband
just for the specific engines listed below in order to keep is simple and helpful
single cams and others are welcome too keep it within internally stock engines tho
gsr with boltons
gsr with single runner
gsr with single runner +boltons
b16 with boltons
b16 with ITR stle manifold
b16 with itr manifold + boltons
b20z2(jdm b20b) with boltons
b20vtec with boltons
b16/gsr/b20v with itr cams
and other popular variations such as 4-2-1,4-1 headers etc
basemap is a good starting point that will potentially save a lot of time on the dyno for your tuner and save your engine from damage before you get it to the dyno.
but please take your car to a dyno.
example on my own car(in the signature)
switching from an OEM intake pipe to a custom intake pipe brought my afrs from 13.5 tojust under 15 afr at wot in vtec which is bad.
so even a slight modification will affect the fueling especially running in open loop( which the ecu does regardless after certain load and rpm is reached)
even stock unmodified ecu runs in open loop during high load and high rpm
Last edited by raverx3m; 04-22-2014 at 07:12 PM.
04-22-2014, 10:36 AM
#2
I'm Huge In Japan
Re: basemap sharing
1.) these are things one usually needs to pay for, that's why they're not readily available.
2.) why exactly do you want these?
3.) I've tuned the same engines with the same specs and the maps can come out totally different for all of them. A basemap is NOT a dyno tuned map, and if you're trying to used dyno tuned maps as basemaps... I sincerely hope they're your cars, so nobody blames you when theirs blows up.
2.) why exactly do you want these?
3.) I've tuned the same engines with the same specs and the maps can come out totally different for all of them. A basemap is NOT a dyno tuned map, and if you're trying to used dyno tuned maps as basemaps... I sincerely hope they're your cars, so nobody blames you when theirs blows up.
04-22-2014, 12:53 PM
#3
Re: basemap sharing
yea just for basemaps to give a good start for someone who wants to do a street tune etc.
or just to make it to a dyno. everything is about the money now that's why "Honda game" is so rotten. it started from sharing information and now nobody moves a finger unless they see a dollar
just a thought. what happends to a guy that built his engine and put a stock basemap on it try to make it to a dyno and blow up. chances are hes gonna just slap a stock engine in and never make it to a dyno.
as opposed to actually having a better suited basemap and less chances of blowing up/damaging his engine and getting it tuned then spending more money on it.
or blowing up and not spending any money at the dyno shop at all...
you lose 10-20 bucks on a basemap and gain a full dyno tune is that not worth it?
and I can see the next argument... but most people just load the basemap.... blah blah yea that's because most people don't understand what basemap is. and moderators are not doing their job deleting/editing the threads that spread misinformation (not just this forum but all the other Honda/car forums that say its ok to run a basemap for years)
please don't turn this thread into another argument.
if someone wants to share a besemap let them do it
or just to make it to a dyno. everything is about the money now that's why "Honda game" is so rotten. it started from sharing information and now nobody moves a finger unless they see a dollar
just a thought. what happends to a guy that built his engine and put a stock basemap on it try to make it to a dyno and blow up. chances are hes gonna just slap a stock engine in and never make it to a dyno.
as opposed to actually having a better suited basemap and less chances of blowing up/damaging his engine and getting it tuned then spending more money on it.
or blowing up and not spending any money at the dyno shop at all...
you lose 10-20 bucks on a basemap and gain a full dyno tune is that not worth it?
and I can see the next argument... but most people just load the basemap.... blah blah yea that's because most people don't understand what basemap is. and moderators are not doing their job deleting/editing the threads that spread misinformation (not just this forum but all the other Honda/car forums that say its ok to run a basemap for years)
please don't turn this thread into another argument.
if someone wants to share a besemap let them do it
04-22-2014, 02:28 PM
#4
Re: basemap sharing
I'm all for sharing calibrations. That's fine if the owners want to share them as long as users know they are using them at their own risk. Users will have to zip the files in order to attach them or host them externally (but attach is preferred).
Those who wish to post please provide all information about the engine hardware as well as any critical tuning info such as fuel pressure, was the ignition synchronized, which injectors and are the offsets inputted etc. There is a lot of context behind a calibration that the laymen does not understand which is why this is dangerous.
Those who wish to post please provide all information about the engine hardware as well as any critical tuning info such as fuel pressure, was the ignition synchronized, which injectors and are the offsets inputted etc. There is a lot of context behind a calibration that the laymen does not understand which is why this is dangerous.
04-22-2014, 03:17 PM
#5
Re: basemap sharing
ill edit first post to include my best explanation about the purpose of basemap then..
not like im asking for a complete database of the cars you tuned.
that's why I listed ONLY the most basic builds that are internally stock.
to have a good starting point.
just the basic ones that are driving on the street or built in the garage.
most of the time they don't even make it to the dyno shop because they are running either stock ecu or a stock basemap they found online.
worst case scenario they are running a completely wrong ecu and engine is damaged before it gets on a dyno
or they borrowed one from their friend's built car and assume that its "close enough"
not like im asking for a complete database of the cars you tuned.
that's why I listed ONLY the most basic builds that are internally stock.
to have a good starting point.
just the basic ones that are driving on the street or built in the garage.
most of the time they don't even make it to the dyno shop because they are running either stock ecu or a stock basemap they found online.
worst case scenario they are running a completely wrong ecu and engine is damaged before it gets on a dyno
or they borrowed one from their friend's built car and assume that its "close enough"
04-22-2014, 08:50 PM
#7
Re: basemap sharing
theres a few but they are built engines not exactly stock ish
we could share all 3 crome hondata and Neptune
I already went through all those directories on xenocron hrtuning and pgmfi wiki
there isn't much to pick from its either stock or built with internals
we could share all 3 crome hondata and Neptune
I already went through all those directories on xenocron hrtuning and pgmfi wiki
there isn't much to pick from its either stock or built with internals
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04-28-2014, 05:22 AM
#10
moderator emeritus
Re: basemap sharing
I'm sorry, but until there is a structured way to post calibration/bin files for others to download knowing they aren't getting a map done by joe blow tuner, I am not going to allow it. I dont care what other sites do. But I do not want someone who thinks "a map is a map" or "oh he has the same setup I do" to get ahold of it from my section and blow up his engine. His fault? Yes, entirely. But there is a % of liability here that I do not want to be a part of.
This section is about helping people troubleshoot, learning about internal combustion and tuning processes and showing people the right way to do things. If you want basemaps, there are companies who sponsor HT that can provide known good starting places for people who can't/don't want to perform an initial basemap setup IE: Phearable.net, Xenocron. If you don't want to use them, find a local tuner and pay him for his knowledge. If you dont want to do that, read some books, ask questions and figure it out for yourself like many people have done.
When I had this group created, I made the rules and asking for basemaps is one of the first things I would not allow.
you may not see it the way I do, and thats fine. But this is how it is. I'm looking at a much bigger picture.
Last edited by 98vtec; 04-28-2014 at 08:54 AM.
04-28-2014, 08:53 AM
#12
moderator emeritus
Re: basemap sharing
It has nothing to do with money. Have a great day.
if you have question as to where to begin with creating a basemap and initial start up procedures...do's and don'ts we have a plethora of experienced members who regularly post in this section with technical information and support. That is how i want to keep it.
if you have question as to where to begin with creating a basemap and initial start up procedures...do's and don'ts we have a plethora of experienced members who regularly post in this section with technical information and support. That is how i want to keep it.
04-28-2014, 09:48 AM
#13
Re: basemap sharing
that's your opinion. no offence but I will stand by my belief that once money gets involved no matter how you try to justify it theres no sharing of anything. because its plain and simple greed. and you can describe it in as many ways as you want. greed is greed. it just became normal in our society to be greedy and to put money over everything else.
and im curious how much more structured do you want this to be. can you share your idea of structured calibration sharing?
not trying to be a dick but we obviously have different views of this.
because it seems to me that what I asked for is pretty well structured. look at my first post I didn't ask to post all kinds of bins I asked specific BASIC setups that people start with then they move on to more complicated setups that need actual tuning
what you keep missing is the fact that if my first build blew up right after I drove it because I try to use a stock map THERE WOULD BE NO FUTURE BUILDS OR SPENDING MONEY ON DYNO TUNING. I would go buy a stock Honda and say **** all this bullshit... is that not worth money?
and another fact that no matter how much you try there will always be people that don't have enough cash to take it to a dyno when they barely had enough cash to build a basic b20v and put it in their car. and guess what they gonna use for their ecu/bin file.
one of the stock maps they found on the internet. and they wouldn't know if it was bad until their engine is fried. which means they now have even less money because they have to rebuild it or buy new one and that 200-300 dollars they could spend on a dyno tune will go towards buying another engine.
you might have started from building in the garage but I have a feeling that you forgot how it was when you started when you had no tools no space to work on it no people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.
and no the internet is not a great place for knowledge. because out of 15 different forums I can get 15 contradicting statements and I wouldn't know any better if I was a noob which one is correct. theres too much garbage info and internet is not a valid answer. even here on HT I can find 10 answers to one topic that are completely opposite..
but its obvious this thread is not going anywhere because people turned it into a fn argument... so whatever. keep responding to those noob threads asking why their engine broke when they use stock gsr map on b20vtec...I don't know if you understand what im trying to say or just deny it. it don't matter...
and im curious how much more structured do you want this to be. can you share your idea of structured calibration sharing?
not trying to be a dick but we obviously have different views of this.
because it seems to me that what I asked for is pretty well structured. look at my first post I didn't ask to post all kinds of bins I asked specific BASIC setups that people start with then they move on to more complicated setups that need actual tuning
what you keep missing is the fact that if my first build blew up right after I drove it because I try to use a stock map THERE WOULD BE NO FUTURE BUILDS OR SPENDING MONEY ON DYNO TUNING. I would go buy a stock Honda and say **** all this bullshit... is that not worth money?
and another fact that no matter how much you try there will always be people that don't have enough cash to take it to a dyno when they barely had enough cash to build a basic b20v and put it in their car. and guess what they gonna use for their ecu/bin file.
one of the stock maps they found on the internet. and they wouldn't know if it was bad until their engine is fried. which means they now have even less money because they have to rebuild it or buy new one and that 200-300 dollars they could spend on a dyno tune will go towards buying another engine.
you might have started from building in the garage but I have a feeling that you forgot how it was when you started when you had no tools no space to work on it no people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.
and no the internet is not a great place for knowledge. because out of 15 different forums I can get 15 contradicting statements and I wouldn't know any better if I was a noob which one is correct. theres too much garbage info and internet is not a valid answer. even here on HT I can find 10 answers to one topic that are completely opposite..
but its obvious this thread is not going anywhere because people turned it into a fn argument... so whatever. keep responding to those noob threads asking why their engine broke when they use stock gsr map on b20vtec...I don't know if you understand what im trying to say or just deny it. it don't matter...
04-28-2014, 10:19 AM
#14
moderator emeritus
that's your opinion. no offence but I will stand by my belief that once money gets involved no matter how you try to justify it theres no sharing of anything. because its plain and simple greed. and you can describe it in as many ways as you want. greed is greed. it just became normal in our society to be greedy and to put money over everything else.
and im curious how much more structured do you want this to be. can you share your idea of structured calibration sharing?
not trying to be a dick but we obviously have different views of this.
because it seems to me that what I asked for is pretty well structured. look at my first post I didn't ask to post all kinds of bins I asked specific BASIC setups that people start with then they move on to more complicated setups that need actual tuning
what you keep missing is the fact that if my first build blew up right after I drove it because I try to use a stock map THERE WOULD BE NO FUTURE BUILDS OR SPENDING MONEY ON DYNO TUNING. I would go buy a stock Honda and say **** all this bullshit... is that not worth money?
and another fact that no matter how much you try there will always be people that don't have enough cash to take it to a dyno when they barely had enough cash to build a basic b20v and put it in their car. and guess what they gonna use for their ecu/bin file.
one of the stock maps they found on the internet. and they wouldn't know if it was bad until their engine is fried. which means they now have even less money because they have to rebuild it or buy new one and that 200-300 dollars they could spend on a dyno tune will go towards buying another engine.
you might have started from building in the garage but I have a feeling that you forgot how it was when you started when you had no tools no space to work on it no people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.
and no the internet is not a great place for knowledge. because out of 15 different forums I can get 15 contradicting statements and I wouldn't know any better if I was a noob which one is correct. theres too much garbage info and internet is not a valid answer. even here on HT I can find 10 answers to one topic that are completely opposite..
but its obvious this thread is not going anywhere because people turned it into a fn argument... so whatever. keep responding to those noob threads asking why their engine broke when they use stock gsr map on b20vtec...I don't know if you understand what im trying to say or just deny it. it don't matter...
and im curious how much more structured do you want this to be. can you share your idea of structured calibration sharing?
not trying to be a dick but we obviously have different views of this.
because it seems to me that what I asked for is pretty well structured. look at my first post I didn't ask to post all kinds of bins I asked specific BASIC setups that people start with then they move on to more complicated setups that need actual tuning
what you keep missing is the fact that if my first build blew up right after I drove it because I try to use a stock map THERE WOULD BE NO FUTURE BUILDS OR SPENDING MONEY ON DYNO TUNING. I would go buy a stock Honda and say **** all this bullshit... is that not worth money?
and another fact that no matter how much you try there will always be people that don't have enough cash to take it to a dyno when they barely had enough cash to build a basic b20v and put it in their car. and guess what they gonna use for their ecu/bin file.
one of the stock maps they found on the internet. and they wouldn't know if it was bad until their engine is fried. which means they now have even less money because they have to rebuild it or buy new one and that 200-300 dollars they could spend on a dyno tune will go towards buying another engine.
you might have started from building in the garage but I have a feeling that you forgot how it was when you started when you had no tools no space to work on it no people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.
and no the internet is not a great place for knowledge. because out of 15 different forums I can get 15 contradicting statements and I wouldn't know any better if I was a noob which one is correct. theres too much garbage info and internet is not a valid answer. even here on HT I can find 10 answers to one topic that are completely opposite..
but its obvious this thread is not going anywhere because people turned it into a fn argument... so whatever. keep responding to those noob threads asking why their engine broke when they use stock gsr map on b20vtec...I don't know if you understand what im trying to say or just deny it. it don't matter...
I read pgmfi.org for a very long time. Read books to get familiar with internal combustion. I also had my first setup tuned by John @ Phearable. Asked him many questions. After tuning the car, he put a base map on it and let me make a few pulls and gave me a few pointers. I learned by spending the money necessary to learn it properly. I bought an emulator, hulog, and a wideband and performed trial and error tests on multiple parameters in the software. Reading datalog after data log to see what changes what and how the effects play out using what I had learned to understand what's going on. Stock engine has a very large window of error and I had Vega's tune as a backup when i needed it. When I had questions, I asked them and every single one of my mentors can tell you that I asked a lot of stupid questions. Still do sometimes.
Suck it up and learn how to build your own map, that way when you screw it up, you only have you to blame. Not the person who uploaded the map with the wrong configurations. Hondata and Neptune have built in step by step base map creators. Can't get much easier than that.
If you can afford to build an engine, you can afford to (at minimum) have the engine street tuned on Crome or you can do like others and learn how to do it.
EFI University
Pgmfi.org
engine management books
AEM efi basics
AEM user manual
VegasInvasions manual
There are many many references to help you understand what you are trying to accomplish. And when you still don't know, ASK here.
No greed involved. I don't tune anymore so its not like I have an investment to protect (and even when I did tune, I would not supply basrmaps unless I was tuning it) or that I am truing to protect the sponsors because you can ask people who know me; I could careless how much money Internet Brands makes. I make decisions based upon what is best for the users. An unfortunately I do not see this as something that would be positive for this section and until someone rips me out of this section, that's how it will be.
04-28-2014, 10:29 AM
#15
Re: basemap sharing
I guess you still didn't want to see my point. its not for me I already got mine I have the tools and can put together a basic map for my daily driver to be safe to drive. im just really ocd that's why I keep tweaking it all the time trying to get it perfect.
but I know many people who don't have tools or skills and I know few of them that have destroyed their engines running a stock bin file or stock ecu that is not even close to what they have. I also know people that run the basemaps because "close enough"
and I usually have no problem helping them to find a better suited basemap with the limited tools and resources I have except theres not much to choose from besides stock maps...
what I wanted to do here is have people post a dynotuned(that's why I specified) map of those SPECIFIC setups that are INTERNALLY STOCK besides basic parts that can be swapped in the garage like cams intake manifolds exhausts etc...
and post the information about the engine.
i mean really you are arguing about this saying a tuned map for a SPECIFIC setup is more dangerous than a stock basemap found online or running a stock ecu that doesn't match or ecu that is "close enough"? i just don't see how that is true
but I know many people who don't have tools or skills and I know few of them that have destroyed their engines running a stock bin file or stock ecu that is not even close to what they have. I also know people that run the basemaps because "close enough"
and I usually have no problem helping them to find a better suited basemap with the limited tools and resources I have except theres not much to choose from besides stock maps...
what I wanted to do here is have people post a dynotuned(that's why I specified) map of those SPECIFIC setups that are INTERNALLY STOCK besides basic parts that can be swapped in the garage like cams intake manifolds exhausts etc...
and post the information about the engine.
i mean really you are arguing about this saying a tuned map for a SPECIFIC setup is more dangerous than a stock basemap found online or running a stock ecu that doesn't match or ecu that is "close enough"? i just don't see how that is true
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