theidealone

So does anyone have the actual rules on this? I know its been discussed in mutiple threads. But I still havent seen any hard facts, evidence, or written rules on it. Just some, "my local inspector said", or "I read on xxx-xx.com". And as for anyone locally, none of the imports around here run them. And I dont think any of the inspectors really know the rules for unibody fwd cars.

I ordered a kit from S&W (yea, I know, everyone is going to say get a custom 4k dollar chromoly cage custom bent, but leave it alone, I cant afford it). But it didnt come with the rocker bar. I contacted them, and they said they would send one out. I asked if it was straight or bent for the center tunnel, and he said it was straight. I asked if I could get it bent by chance, and he said he didnt think it could be bent. But Ive seen almost all of them bent. And if I do a straight bar, I will have to move my fuel and brake lines.

So does anyone have any rules on whether it HAS to be straight? All I know is that it has to go in front or behind the main hoop, and the D-bars tie into that, instead of the floor. But nothing in that says it cant be bent.

[EDIT] Heres a link to S&W's installation instructions. Very bottom of the last page is a diagram for installing the rocker/sill crossmember.

http://www.swracecars.com/Files/pdf/rollbarorcage.pdf

runsfromdacops

yes it would need to b bent to make it over the ex. tunnle. i have seen ppl pass tech with a straight back across the main hoop.

theidealone

Is it LEGAL to have it bent?

061000rr

iTrader: (2)

yes it is. it just has to tie into the rocker sill. it can go to the main hop as long as the main hoop ties into the rocker sill also

hondaracing84

iTrader: (1)

Hey, dont feel bad about the S&W cage. I bought one too. Got it installed and it is great. They only had to bend the pillar bars in just a bit and cut them shorter. So I say good call on the S&W cage. Its cheap and it works.

Poootie

something like this...????
http://s1187.photobucket.com/albums/...=rockerbar.jpg

for some reason i thought the bar had to be all connected (hence the bend over the tunnel)..

Because i'm thinking of doing something like this to make my cage legal for 2011

welfarepc

im just going to get a straight bar, and bent it with a cheap pipe bender in the middle. grind the ends so it will mount flush and throw it in.

061000rr

iTrader: (2)

that will work if your floor plate is bent so it welds to the floor and the rocker sill like this\/\/
and this is how i bent my bar

SPOOLINmatt

look, CALL YOUR TECH, CALL THE GUY THAT WILL INSPECT IT, THAT GUY THAT WILL LICK THE BARS, RUB HIS NOSE ON IT, AND TELL YOU ITS HARD, STRONG, AND WILL ENCAPSULATE YOU WITH LOVE. Do this as a favor to you to find out what will be acceptable to him. My tech here thinks a lot different from what seems to be other ways that people here fail with.

josh green

Can you not just weld 2 bars? One each going from door seal to the exhaust tunnel?

locash

Matt is right, call the one person who has to approve it, and do whatever the hell he says. If you only have one inspector in your area, and you dont do it the way he wants, you're ****ed.

theidealone

Well, the inspector(s) in my area is cert'ing cages without the crossmember. So asking him may not really do me any good.

From what I gather from the rules, and Ive seen it posted as failing before, the crossmember needs to be welded into the rockers, not the main hoop. And S&W instructs you to weld the bar either in front, or behind the main hoop. Not through, or connected to.

So I plan on welding it to the rocker, not the hoop, and I cant find any conflicting rule to state that the rocker crossmember cant be bent.

If I cant get S&W to bend it, Im going to do with you said Dan. Just put a slight bend in the middle, so that the bar goes at an angle towards both rockers, and weld them in like that.

.adam.

are they doing this for free? i just ordered one too, and it did not come with one....

theidealone

Yea. I had emailed him before he shipped it to make sure it came with one. He said it was included in the kit. Then it got here and I didnt get one. So I emailed back and he said he would ship it out ASAP.

So Im not sure if I covered my *** with asking beforehand, or what. But you should definitely ask.

0BoostedJeff

The bar in the blue car is bent, and it passed fine. It had to be added because when the car was mine back in 2005ish, they didnt have this "rule" so he tied it into the cage as shown, and you cant tell, but also added a plate to the exhaust tunnel and tied it in there. Any good chassis guy will be able to do it the right way


DSC_0082 by Jeff Blumenfeld, on Flickr (Album: Charm City Tuning)

street soldier1

i am a dealer for s&w.they r really good.that cross bar can be bent and no they don't come bent.the cross bar is only for 10pt cages and up.the cross bar can not be apart of the main hoop.they can not touch.then the latteral bars off the main hoop go to the top of the cross bar.the cross bar can be in front or behind the main hoop.hope this helps you.

SPOOLINmatt

this is open to interpretation. I can pass my inspection doing it the way you say you cant.

street soldier1

Yes it will pass tech but when it comes time to pass certification they might tell to you to change in to the NHRA spec. If you look at S&W's intallation notes it will show you the proper way to install the cage.

redboost10

this has been certed a couple times now...crappy picture but the lower bar is going from main hoop to main hoop.

SPOOLINmatt

dude im talking about the chassis certifying tech, not some dude at the track who just looks at the car for safety.

90blackcrx

Wait thats doesn't count, **** man I guess I gotta redo my roll bar that comes out the roof. I was trying to be cool like downpipe out the hood.

theidealone

I dunno about it being open to interpretation.

So far, I did a little bit of Google searching, and I havent found the 2008 Rule Provisions, but found this quoted on a few different forums, one of them being Honda-Tech.


"“D” bar installation for full-bodied cars: For front-wheel-drive cars, with complete OEM floor (from the firewall to the rear of the trunk) and rocker/sill boxes, the 1 1/4-inch x .058-inch CM (.118-inch MS) “D” bars (when required; i.e., when the main hoop is not welded to the frame) may be welded to a 1 5/8-inch x .083-inch CM (.118-inch MS) crossmember welded to the rocker/sill box via conventional 6-inch x 6-inch x 1/8-inch-thick plates. For rear-wheel-drive cars, with neither a frame nor subframe connectors, but with complete OEM floor (from the firewall to the rear of the trunk; exception: the rear inner wheelwells may be tubbed with steel or aluminum) and rocker/sill boxes, the 1 1/4-inch x .058-inch CM (.118-inch MS) “D” bars may be welded to conventional 6-inch x 6-inch x 1/8-inch plates attached to the driveshaft tunnel."

I dont see anywhere in that being a possibility of welding the crossmember back into the main hoop that its supposed to be supporting. All youre doing at that point, is giving the hoop triangulation, no actual lateral support to the frame or unibody.

It clearly says to mount these to the rocker/sill via 6x6 plates.

Im 99% certain that the only reason anyone is getting away with it any other way, is because they (chassis inspectors) dont deal with or pay attention to FWD cars, nor do most of them care. I mean, for the past 2 years, people have been getting cert'd in my area with the D-bars going into the tunnel or floor.

Also, I think NHRA's thinking or reasoning behind adding this bar is because of the strength of the tunnel and floor. If we had a frame or were RWD cars, it wouldnt apply. But as it does apply, my logic says that our exhaust tunnel wasnt designed for the same purpose as a driveshaft or transmission tunnel. So it doesnt have the same rigidity that a RWD car might have, at that spot, since the exhaust isnt going to come through the floor boards if it snaps in half.

Regardless, this thread wasnt started to discuss whether the "ROCKER/SILL crossmember" could be welded to the "MAIN HOOP" (in which its supposed to support). I ONLY WANTED TO KNOW if the crossmember could have bends in it.

I will go ahead and bend it. Hopefully S&W sends me enough to bend.

theidealone

Well, S&W shipped it out right away. But not only was it NOT enough to bend, its not even enough to reach from one side of the car, to the other. So regardless, this is a piece of scrap metal to me.

I sent them another email. Hopefully I hear back soon.

SPOOLINmatt

i would have told them the bar needed to be X in length minimum to save trouble. Never trust a fabrication company to have the right size without them seeing the vehicle.

theidealone

I just assumed they would send 60". I think they send me scrap, as this was notched on one side, and not the other.