0KStuned

I've been wanting to write this article for a long time because I constantly hear (from customers.... and even moreso from friends who have shops and are REAL SFWD competitors) that people have no idea what it really takes to build one of these cars. Building it is one thing, then racing and maintaining it year after year is a whole other animal!

Lot's of people think they can do it cheaper, to them I say prove it. Show me a top 10 competitor who's done it for cheaper. The point isn't to create an argument but to provide some perspective on what it's going to take to be at the top of this game. It crizazy. But that's racing, and the sooner that you own it and accept it the better off we'll all be. Ya gotta pay to play, and man... that feeling you get when you've bled for something for five years finally pays off... is priceless!

The original article is located here: How much does 1,200 HP cost? (Part 1) | KStuned.com

$74,172

... is how much it costs to build a competitive SFWD car with 1,200 WHP (on the low end, assuming you already have a chassis). Let that sink in for a minute.
Everyone doing a build has an idea about how much power they want to make. I hear it all the time; "I just want a fun street car that spools up fast." Then after they hear that their buddy is building a 1,200 HP SFWD car their goal changes. What's often misunderstood is how much money it takes to build a competitive SFWD car that makes 1,200 HP and runs in the mid 8-second range. Everybody severely underestimates how much time and money it's going to take

This list is as close to exhaustive as I could come up with. Having done it a couple times, it changes every time and everyone's build is a little different. Most builds have a lot of the same parts. You can print this list and use it as a checklist for your own build. But unless your a trust-fund baby you should expect to spend 5 years+ on a competitive build.



Let's start with the meat and potatoes of a SFWD Build:

The backbone of every build is the engine management and the wiring.

$5,000. Engine Management: It's well known that the majority of the fast SFWD guys are on Motec- either an M84, M800 or M1. Then theres a group using AEM (no comment), and I dunno but I think a bunch of guys are using Fueltech too. The most used ECU is probably Hondata S300 but that ecu is at a severe disadvantage against the big players in SFWD. I'm not sure, but I'm sure there are some guys using Haltech too.

$2,500. Wiring: Lots of options here but my recommendation is Joel at Race-Spec, expect to spend $2,500+ depending on options.

$1,000. Ignition Box: If you've got 4 CDI coils (CDI ignition won't work with inductive-type K-coils), then it's the M&W Pro 14 or Pro Drag-4. If you're on the stock ECU then you need the ultimate ignition system from T1 (M&W Pro 10 and a bigass coil). With the M&W Pro 14 and CBR coils I never had a misfire even with the plugs gapped at .035 and 45+ PSI of boost. It's Bananas. M&W is awesome.

$3,999. Turbo: There's a few different options here but a tried-and-true solution is a Precision 7285 with a 1.28 A/R housing

$5,000-10,000. Transmission: assembled and spec'd with spool or differential. A Liberty's gearset is gonna cost you $4,500 plus assembly. You'll still need bearings, and either a differential or a spool. Quaife and even Mfactory differentials have held up pretty well. I don't know of a clutch-type diff that will live, most of the ones used are helical diffs. DSS also has a pro-level spool, or a modified Quiafe diff that goes with their pro-level hub axle kit.

$1,200-$4,000. Clutch: I think the most commonly used clutch is the Competition Twin or Triple disc. Up from there is the Tilton Carbon-carbon which will deal with more slippage if you wanna get fancy and program a slipping clutch.

$1,500. PDM: Single point of control for all things electric. Never replace a fuse again. This is the way, the truth, the light.

$625. Front Brakes: KS tuned has an inexpensive front drag brake option that's on most of the top teams from all-motor to SFWD. The brakes save 22lbs and they're an easy bolt-on option. Of course I'd recommend them, but ask around because these little brakes have stopped cars from 170+ without a parachute...but I definitely suggest and recommend using a chute! If you wanna know more about the Front Drag Brakes you can check them out here: KS tuned Front Drag Brakes by KS tuned | KStuned.com

$2,100. Manifold with wastegates: Usually guys are using custom tubular manifolds from Sheepey, SpeedFactory, "Derek Welder" or their local shop. Most use twin 44mm wastegates. Some use twin 60+mm wastegates.

$700-1200. Wastegates: Usually from TiAl, Precision, or TurboSmart.

$3,500. Cylinder head with valvetrain: Expect to spend $2,500 on the a quality CNC port job with new valve guides, shortened for big lift cams. CNC port work usually includes minor combustion chamber work for consistency between cylinders. Also the intake port gets opened up a lot, but don't be surprised if the exhaust port looks kinda stock. It's been said that the magic is on the intake side, the exhaust side of these Honda heads is already very close to where it needs to be. The big players here are: 4 Piston Racing, RLZ Engineering, Prayoonto/Mission Critical, and Portflow among others.

Valvetrain is usually Ferrea titanium retainers, and shimmed Ferrea springs for seat pressure 100lbs+ at the seat. Some guys are using off-the-shelf springs, and others are using springs from other applications and making it work. Expect to spend $1000+ here for springs, retainers, billet valve locks, and spring seats and shims.

$700 Cams: A lot of guys use Skunk2 Pro Series Stg. 1 and for some reason disabling the VTEC feature happens a lot. I think that's mostly monkey-see, monkey-do. Some teams have played with Skunk Pro 2's and 3's but make sure you've got a BIG back housing and low exhaust back pressure or that's not gonna work. The other big players are Web Pro Series and DDtech is making a presence as well. The new kid on the block at this time is Skunk Ultra cams, already in use in some fast cars.

$4,500. Block fully assembled with pistons, rods, bearings, crank, oil pump: Lots of different sleeved block providers including Benson, Golden Eagle, Victory Precision Machine, AR Fab, Darton, the list goes on and on. About $1,000 to assemble and blueprint the block properly.The big boys have a step-deck copper o-ringed block and never have any issues (especially in H with original 12mm studs!)

$1,000-1,500. Intake Manifold: Skunk2 Ultra or Excessive or Prayoonto. For sheetmetal it's either Golden Eagle, "Derek Welder" or Gato.

$1,000. Intercooler: So many different options here. Lots of custom stuff going on, in the class that I'm mostly talking about here, only Air/Air is allowed and so people are getting custom intercoolers and intercooler/radiator combos from places like Sheepey and Speedfactory.

$1,200. Fuel pump(s): Weldon 2354a is the baddest single electric fuel pump out there. Other options are triple Bosch 044. It all depends on the fuel you're using. Ethanol cars will need a lot more fuel system than a gas car.

$1,300-1,920. Injectors. Twin sets (8) 2,000cc injectors is common for this much power. I recommend always using Injector Dynamics for two reasons, one is that they will stand behind their product with support and tech like no one else in the industry. The second reason is that the group of guys involved in ID are world-class enthusiasts who live and breathe their technology like no one else that I'm aware of. Cheaper injectors can be had, but caveat emptor pal.

$1,699. Rear Trailing Arms: Some guys are still using stock but most are using the KS tuned rear trailing arms for a 50lb weight savings and extended wheelbase, as well as camber correction (built-in). Almost all of the fastest teams in All Motor and SFWD are using KS tuned RTA's and the reason is because we were the first, and we stand behind and support our racers when bad things happen (like they crash in to a wall). We can get you the replacement parts you need right away, so you can get back to the track ASAP. KS tuned Rear Trailing Arm Kit by KS tuned | KStuned.com

$500. Parachute: Yep, you need it. Make sure your anchor point is in line to the CG of the car so your chute doesn't make the rear of the car too light. Google it. Doug at Hondata has an article on it.

$5,000-8,000. Roll Cage: This depends on whose doing it and what it's made of (chromoly or MS) and whether its a standard 10 pt or if it's a 25.5 or equivalent. Don't skimp here, it's your life,... kinda important!

$1,000-3,000 Suspension: Blox drag pros to Skunk to Strange to Penske and everything in between. (I've cut 1.44 60fts on Blox Drag Pros)

$2,000. Three piece front end (painted, wrapped, or Carbon Fiber): Franks custom fiberglass among others. Be sure to factor in time and parts to mount the thing and a little bit of body work and paint or a wrap to make it look nice.

$2,000. Wheels/tires: Belak, Weld the list goes on and on lots of good wheel options out there! Tires are M&H Racemaster 25x9x13.

1,000 hours. Fab work: Mounting the intercooler, mounting the radiator, mounting the battery, fabbing the IC tubing.... there's a metric ****-ton of custom fabrication that you're going to have to do. Some of it is listed above... as I'm writing this I'm thinking of more things like: Ballast bar, coolant overflow, catch can, downpipe, parachute, assembling and routing fuel lines, brake lines, oil lines. Mounting the ecu, ignition box, and all of the electronics like PDM or relay/fuse box.

$2,000. Misc: Coils, spark plugs, bolts/hardware, oil pan, oil lines, fuel lines, boost solenoids, fittings, and stuff I forgot.

1,000 hours. Misc Custom Work: Chassis prep, mounting the battery, installing all the parts, running and testing all the wiring, adding ballast, removing/building/reinstalling/tweaking the transmission and the engine... OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

$200/weekend. Consumables: Fuel and oil, zip ties, brake fluid.

$500/weekend. Travel expenses: Hotels, gas, food, having to replace a wheel bearing on the trailer, etc.

On the Low-side it will cost $74, 172 to build a competitive SFWD car with 1,200 HP... Assuming you already have the car!

The original article is located here: How much does 1,200 HP cost? (Part 1) | KStuned.com

kr3w108

Im sure some folks reading this are getting discouraged..... Used parts can be had for cheap , that work just fine. If you can fab your own parts and do your own labor on the car then the cost is reduced by a lot.

Project_EK

iTrader: (1)

i agree, building a "1,200" whp can be done cheaper buying used parts and doing labor yourself. However, everyone's situation is different. that figure would be more accurate for someone to drop a car off at a shop and say build me a low 8 sec, 1200whp car! Even doing that i think it can be done for $50k ish. the hard truth is, even if you do spend $50-$70k building a car, it doesnt stop there. a car of that caliber will always break parts and need to be serviced (which = even more money) I think the sport would be a lot better if ppl built a car for what they can really afford. ***there's too many ppl with 11.50 index pockets, trying to build a SFWD car!

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

done buying used parts... everyone I've bought for my build that was used ended up biting me in the butt, besides my turbo. *sigh

Project_EK

iTrader: (1)

yeah you have to be careful buying parts used. There's certain things I wouldn't buy used. It's definitely best to buy used parts in person so you can inspect everuthing.

Jockobo

Good article. But this is why need a new class for the sportsman folks. Something that would limit the turbine to 62 mm. SFWD is crazier than what hot rod used to be.

Project_EK

iTrader: (1)

I don't think thats the answer either. Someone would end up going really fast, and youd be back to squar one with everyone crying that they can't keep up. I think if you can't afford to keep up with SFWD build a bracket car.

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

True. then you'll run into the issue with deep pockets not winning races then they will switch over to the slower class. Just like domestics and the 275/radial class.

4piston

There are lots of fast 8 second cars in the 1050 hp range that can be built on pretty basic stuff. Get to that point and get the car where its working well, then progress up to some of the expensive toys

0KStuned

This is good advice. I think a lot of people are only willing to buy the "Best of the best" stuff and then they change their turbo 3 times before they even get to the track once!

bigG

iTrader: (6)

^^^Im guilty, not my fault though. Tell 4p stop coming out with badass new heads. lol

locash

I have an 8 second 62mm car, which is basically a SFWD car with a 62mm turbo bolted on, lol. The turbo doesn't really affect the budget much.

Jockobo

62mm turbine ? Something to choke the power down some so that a dog box won't be an absolute necessity to compete.

Paul_VR6

Quite eye opening and the above is assuming that you only do all this stuff ONCE. Probably a long, hard won road to make that above list littered with a trail of things that didn't work out.

dohcsideSi

Run index. I think there is now room for a 9.50 class as even some of the older sfwd cars can't compete. 10.50 class is great because we don't need the certed cage and nhra lisence but it sucks sandbagging or running pump plus half the turbo cars in the class will go 9s all day . Ifo has forced induction sport which has the 62mm limit and that's what I built the integra to (and 10.50) even if I've never made it to an ifo event yet.

To the originally post you're pretty dead on. Anybody who asks about me about sfwd I tell them it's easy, buy a shell and drop $80k.

3minburnout

The florida guys are on to something , simple builds and are @ the top of the class//// most of them running in the mid to low 8 second range with some of the best short track in the field , the kkt car runs a stock port k series head .

4piston

I think those simple cars built from the ground up starting with zero fit right into Reid's budget plans. We get a lot of calls after every event from the guys that need replacement parts for what they fucked up over the weekend, so I chuckle a little when people say they are out racing for a couple hundred bucks. Those florida guys are committed....good racers and I commend them for their dedication to the sport. The track is doing a hell of a job down there too.

0KStuned

Joe's got the recipe, don't ya Joe?

locash

Yeah, the recipe is only $50k, on sale this week!

hondatech8798

iTrader: (2)

74172 = 96742 Canadian lol add ur shipping and dam dury chargers and ur over 100g .. barf!

CHEETAH

iTrader: (2)

nice thread...probably also applies to all motor class too...racers spend buckets of money to build and go race then the maintenance and replacement can be quite sizable. This can get under-budgeted really fast too.

H22Honda98

That's absolute insanity. I never doubted that guys would eventually have 75k+ in an ongoing build, but to start at that number just to make a competitive pass blows me away.

Are you sure you aren't using prices that a shop would charge if you didn't want anything to do with the labor and just told them to go ham? Admittedly, I must be one of those people who just dont get it. If there was $30k in front of me I have a hard time imagining how I couldn't build a car with enough power to go 9's. Hell, I dont even see myself spending that much even.

Kudos to you guys who pay the big bucks and get out there and compete.

nonvtecallmotor

You can build a 9 second street car for ~10k. You can build a 8 second SFWD/True Street car for ~30k. Thats with doing most of the work yourself and getting used or deals on parts. To run low mid to low 8's it not only takes $$ but it takes alot of time and knowledge..

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

save $7,700.00 on the roll cage do it yourself with S&W pre-bent.
save $1,100.00 on wheels, run Exospeed and M&H
save $2,000.00 on front end use stock
save $3,000.00 on turbo DON'T USE PRECISION. save on headaches heart aches by running Borg Warner, or Garrett.
save around $15,000.00 by running Hondata. or AEM.
I could go on, but I think 1200hp can be had reliably for less in a Honda.

0KStuned

It feels that way doesn't it!? Once you do it, you'll feel differently especially if your car can go rounds.