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I got a couple of passes at the track before I blew something in the clutch. On my one true attempt at a real launch, I wheel hopped/tire shook pretty bad.
I'm assuming this is why I am breaking axles. Here's a rundown of my front end/suspesion setup, you let me know what you think.
91 Civic w/ D series engine/trans
23x8x13 slicks (~5 years old)
Quaife LSD
Traction bar w/ single heim
Solid aluminum engine mounts (front has a steel bar welded to the traction bar and bolted to the block)
Kingpin Machine upper and lower control arm bearings
Koni yellow shocks w/ Skunk2 drag coilovers (Konis set to full stiff)
I have a staging brake and preload the hell out of the car (almost blew through the light actually). Here's an incredibly shitty video of the launch. You can hear it hits redline almost immediately and I let off due to the shuddering.
My buddy experienced the same thing the pass before (almost identical setup to mine) and he lowered the slick pressure from 9 to 7 and it went away. I had mine set to 9 as well to avoid breaking an axle, and then lowered mine to 7, but never had a chance to test it.
Can a PSI change really cause/fix a hop like that? Could my slicks being so old have something to do with it?
Other thing I was thinking was that my Konis are not valved properly or possibly blown, causing an up and down hop. I'd like to avoid spending big bucks on some Strange coilovers, but if anyone has had them solve a hop issue, I think I'd try it.
Okay, I am not an expert on a CRX suspension but I will tell you I too use the Kingpin setup on my car and removed my Full Race traction bar as recommended by Kingpin. They said by keeping the traction bar setup using their FLCA and UCA's could actually cause damage.
Now I don't know how the traction bar/cross member setup on a CRX works but are you able to remove your traction bar or disconnect the heim joints and test it out?
Before I switched over to Kingpin products or Strange Coilovers I had 10 year old H&R street coilovers but I never had wheel hop, so I can't say that switching would help.
Also if you think your old slicks may be the cause maybe borrow a set of slicks and rims from a friend to just test them out on a couple passes. If it solves the issue then you can buy a new set of slicks.
The traction bar on the EF is actually the locating arm like the rear arm of an EG. I have to have it.
I'm wondering if it was a PSI issue, because my buddy with the exact same tires (except his only have about 10 passes on them) said his stopped doing it after he dropped from 9 to 7 psi.
It could be your traction bar in the way it hooks up to your LCA. If it's not an OEM or Innovative style where it squares up your LCA, your Kingpin's will allow the LCA to swing.
It could be your traction bar in the way it hooks up to your LCA. If it's not an OEM or Innovative style where it squares up your LCA, your Kingpin's will allow the LCA to swing.
It is a single heim in the front, with the factory side of the radius rod welded inside a chromoly bar.
I'm very much aware of the issue stated above, and have made sure it's all good.
John from M&H called me today, but I missed his call, so I'll follow up with him tomorrow. I was asking him about old slicks, slick psi, and whether or not they could induce wheelhop.
try getting a set of M/T 24.5x9(new). The new tires will obviously hook better especially being a inch wider. Being 1.5" taller will make 1st gear longer(all gears obviously) which will help you get closer to the 60ft marker before shifting to 2nd. looks like all your suspension parts and the way you set it up seems to be good. might be tire, tire pressure, and your launch control settings could be the issue. i would get the tires i stated and give it another try.
Keep us posted on what M&H says. The only time I had something similar to what you are experiencing was with violent tire shake. It didn't matter how I dialed it in......it just jackhammered the front end for the first 100 or so feet. I switched to fresh slicks and it cured that problem. Judging from your vids, your issue seems different.
doesnt seem like your slicks are hooking very well. hardly any smoke on the burnout.
did you stay in the water box when you did the burn out or pull through?
I had a similar issue once when i didnt pull through the water box all the way. water dripped on the tires at the line and caused me to spin to the limiter off the hit. I dont remember having wheel hop, but i did have to pedal it out quite a bit, and my 60' dropped from low 1.7s to 2.1.
Does is wheel hop on the street? My ED hatch has nasty wheel hop on the street on anything but perfectly smooth roads but on the track on slicks it behaves perfectly.
doesnt seem like your slicks are hooking very well. hardly any smoke on the burnout.
did you stay in the water box when you did the burn out or pull through?
I had a similar issue once when i didnt pull through the water box all the way. water dripped on the tires at the line and caused me to spin to the limiter off the hit. I dont remember having wheel hop, but i did have to pedal it out quite a bit, and my 60' dropped from low 1.7s to 2.1.
I was only doing a second gear burnout, and started in the water, letting it drag itself out.
Originally Posted by bgdriver
Does is wheel hop on the street? My ED hatch has nasty wheel hop on the street on anything but perfectly smooth roads but on the track on slicks it behaves perfectly.
On the street, it just spins, no hop at all. Just burns em down then hooks.
Id try 6.5lbs of pressure and a 3rd gear burnout. Pull in the water box give the tires a quick turnover to get them wet then pull out of the water box then do your burnout.
My crx has the fullrace arms with heims on both ends and i dont get any shake at 6.5 but it almost bogs on me i tried messing with air at 7.5lbs it tire shakes bad so i need to dial mine in. I do cut 1.6x 60' with 6.5 but i think if i can use a little more air pressure it will give them just a little more turn and i can get a better 60 without the slight bog.
I get plenty of heat in the tires doing 2nd gear burnouts. im not a big fan of 3rd gear.
but either way dont start your burnout in the water box. pull through it and start your burnout after you are out of the puddle. you will sling water into the fender wells which will drip back onto the tires while your staging.
I get plenty of heat in the tires doing 2nd gear burnouts. im not a big fan of 3rd gear.
Looks like 24.5's? My little 23's might need some more wheelspeed.
Just got off the phone with John from M&H. He said that slicks, due to their nylon fabric, are very easy to deform. I told him I rarely go to the track, and don't race competitively, just weekend warrior stuff. He said if the slicks sit for a while and go flat as they do, they'll deform, even off the car. Then if you slap 7 lbs of air in them and go racing, they're still deformed. He suggested pumping them up to 40 lbs to let them stretch out and regain uniformity before lowering them down to race pressure.
He also stated that the higher the pressure, the more "bouncy" they'll be, and more easily hop. I was always brought up thinking that more pressure = more spin = less breakage. Apparently not so black and white. I told him about my buddy's 9/7 psi hop/no hop situation and he said a little too much air plus some water or even too much RPM will lead to hopping. (Logically enough.)
Looks like 24.5's? My little 23's might need some more wheelspeed.
Just got off the phone with John from M&H. He said that slicks, due to their nylon fabric, are very easy to deform. I told him I rarely go to the track, and don't race competitively, just weekend warrior stuff. He said if the slicks sit for a while and go flat as they do, they'll deform, even off the car. Then if you slap 7 lbs of air in them and go racing, they're still deformed. He suggested pumping them up to 40 lbs to let them stretch out and regain uniformity before lowering them down to race pressure.
He also stated that the higher the pressure, the more "bouncy" they'll be, and more easily hop. I was always brought up thinking that more pressure = more spin = less breakage. Apparently not so black and white. I told him about my buddy's 9/7 psi hop/no hop situation and he said a little too much air plus some water or even too much RPM will lead to hopping. (Logically enough.)
good advice. definitely try that out and se what happens.
12-13-2014, 02:16 PM
Fixing wheelhop: What's left?
