Desir Performance

Hey guys need some feed back from those of you running either gforce, ppg, albins, liberty.

I'm at the point in my build where I'm deciding on a gearset and after
doing some research these 4 seem to but the top choice available at this time.
It seems like while there better then stock gears and last longer there not bullet proof and people have blow gears from each one of the 4 company's.

People seem to favor Albins at the current time and speed factory stand by them and claim to have many many 1000hp+ full throttle shifts

T1 favors the ppg and set many records while running those gears.

Dynamic performance have proven time and time again that gforce can handle the 24.5 tire.

While these race teams put down some good times, their still sponsored and vendors of those gears so what I'm looking for is unbiased reviews from the guys who run these gears or have run them and switched to another. While price is a factor I'm willing as im sure others wouldn't mind paying for something that's worth the money and can actually hold up to the power that most guys are making.

For me I like the Albins and ppg but I'm concerned about if/when a gear does break what is the time line for replacement and availability since both companies are not local

Gforce is local and much cheaper and seems to have replacement parts available, but the 600hp rating has me worried since I'm making much more then that. I know DP makes much more then 600 but let's be honest I'm sure no team is gonna give a play by play on how often things needed replacing during the season for them.

Liberty was the gear of choice once upon a time but lately people seem to stay away from the gears but us the cuffs and bellhousing

If you search dogbox, gearset, ppg, etc... many post comes up and some of the response is I have xxxx gears and I love it or xxxx is the best. Please that's not what I'm looking for please give reviews on quality, ease of installation, what if any work was needed to install ( grinding/cutting for clearance) if you did damage a gear what was the turnaround for replacement, and hp and tire size. Thanks

YZFR6

I have owned both the PPG and Gforce K Series transmissions. To be honest, the machining quality on both are very close. The teeth profiling is very close on the K Series Dog Box. The PPG finish is a satin coating while GForce is some kind of chromate. I have never had problems with any. I like the Gforce because of it's price point, parts availability and service. PPG is a great product too, it's a 3k almost more then the Gforce and if you ever need parts your paying shipping from Australia. Not New Jersey. Also, I'm sure what you meant by Gforce transmission rating is only at 600hp? Because all cars I have seen it used on including myself have made over 900hp + going 170+ mph. In the end, all transmission gear sets break no matter what brand. It happens, it's racing. I have seen Albins break in a matter of 2 passes, I have seen people break PPG as well and I have seen Gforce break too. Just have to ask yourself when I break where, how much and how fast can I get my parts for replacement...

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

The above mentioned is absolutely true. I run PPG and am very happy with it, some of the fastest FWD cars use PPG gear sets. As far as shipping goes, one week or less from Australia. Locash CNC orders a decent amount of gearsets from PPG and gets them very quick. So I wouldn't be concerned about wait time if you consider PPG.

If it were me I would rank it like this.
PPG
Gforce
Albins
Liberty

crazes

if you want PPG there is also a dealer in flordia name is Marc P from GP1 racing. He consistently has gears available to sell as well. Just FYI

turbo-2nr

Have ran both albins and now on a ppg. At around 900hp we would get 20-25 hits out of a stock cuffed box. Put in an albins and 10 hits later it was broke, I tooth literally fell off 3rd gear and took out 3k In parts. Talked to albins and ended up sending the parts in for inspection and was told it looked like a defect in the metal but they where zero help and offered nothing. Fixed the box and sold it. Moved on to a ppg last year and have over 50 hits on it with zero problems. In my opinion the PPG is the only choice.
The albins my be a good box but with the poor coustom service it's not worth the risk IMO.

1HGEJ2

iTrader: (1)

i had great customer service with albins.
i will test mine next year.


its a welded case

Desir Performance

Also, I'm sure what you meant by Gforce transmission rating is only at 600hp? Because all cars I have seen it used on including myself have made over 900hp

The 600hp is on there website, I know many people run more hp then that through them but I guess they put that rating there to cover their *** when it breaks.

Please keep this thread going with replys I know it will help many people who's in the same situation make a decision. And hopefully the guys who had poor customer service from the company after dishing out 1000's of dollars will continue to chime in and let the rest of us know, hopefully those companies will see this an do something about it before their sales get affected.

hondatech8798

iTrader: (2)

how does PAR turbo gearsets stack up???

nonvtecallmotor

I've owned Albins, Liberty X2 , and G-force X2. I now have a G-force. I'd like to try a PPG but the G-force is holding up pretty good.

My rankings
G-Force
Liberty
Albins
Can't rank PPG because I haven't used one.

Desir Performance

Why did you go through 3 different companies? A few locals guys I spoke to also decided to go with gforce but for them it was for financial reasons, the gforce is holding up pretty well for them and that has me wondering what I'm getting for paying almost double for the ppg or albins.

E Town DSM

I have owned both PPG and gforce. The PPG has far superior metal or finish. The dogs on the gforce tend to round off much faster then the PPG even under normal conditions. I have also seen this with the liberty. One thing I have seen often is cracked gears and broken off dogs on the gforce and liberty. As for shipping. If it's in stock directly at PPG it's at your door in about 3-5 days. But like someone mentioned Marc P is a dealer as well as a few others and they tend to stock the common stuff. Last time I needed a gear Marc had it to me in 2 days. It all comes down to budget most will get the
Job done. But the PPG will go the extra mile but the cost reflects it. You get what you pay for.

TurboSohc3369

I only have experience with liberty. my friends been running them for about 2 years now and only had 1 problem so far. 3rd gear broke a tooth and split the gear in half. Called liberty and I had the new one in 3 days free of charge. All they said was send the old one back. To me great service. As far as putting it together thats another story. It takes some time and experience. It was a little difficult. But I would buy another anytime.

EJ1_Ex

iTrader: (1)

Very good thread! please more input!

YZFR6

:thumb up: I agree with you on the B Series the finishing on PPG is better then the Gforce. Ricky, didn't you crack final drive ring gear on the PPG and rounded the dogs too? At the end of the day they all break...

E Town DSM

Never once have i cracked a ppg final (knock on wood) even when we ran the smaller final that had the lower cuff. The gforce i cracked the ring gear and so has Brian and Marco a few times. The gforce ring and pinion was larger then the old ppg with lower cuff but the new ppg stuff without the lower cuff is bigger then the gforce. As for rounding off dogs only when we had issues with strain gauge setup. Cunhas car actually has a recut 2nd gear in it with about 25 passes. With age and abuse stuff breaks the key is having something that can put up with the abuse over time.

bigTom

gear breakage is not really much of an issue with any of the manufacturers... if you do break some gears either you really cheaped out on some crap gears or something else is wrong... if and when dogs wear its a shifting issue; not a trans issue with any of the manufacturers (other than perhaps quaife and ferrana)... with that being said PPG is what you need... if you cant afford it then try some of the others that attempt to match ppg's quality but understand you are simply buying something that is sub-par... with transmission parts you get what you pay for... PPG makes real racing gears/transmissions... some of the other guys i really dont know what they are attempting to do...

and buy a billet case to prevent it being the cause of a gearset failure...

g force and albins have been improving their gears but PPG still surpasses them all around...

iv recut hundreds of dog gears by hand by all the manufacturers mentioned along with xtrac's, hollingers, quaife's, among others and this is just my opinion... for what its worth i DO NOT sell gears; only fix them when you mess them up!

SPOOLINmatt

SSAAAAAYYYYY WHHAAAAAATTTT?????

Desir Performance

Ok some of the prices I got are

PPG set 1-4 with top cuff and FD $7000
PPG also suggest running a billet case $1950
Optional is the speed factory SCHA $500


Albins set 1-4 $5200
Albins thrust bearing $246.50
Albins final drive $1200
Albins top cuff $500
Optional but suggested
Billet case $1950
Speed factory SCHA $500


Gforce set 1-4 and FD $5200 include assembly and shipping included (modify your old bell housing by Dynamic Performance)
Gforce set 1-4 $4700 if you use the billet case instead
Optional but suggested
Billet case 1950
Speed factory SCHA $500

The choice would be easy based on these prices, you can get a gforce and a backup set for the price of 1 PPG. Big Tom did post a valuable point as he's worked on the machining part of the gears and stated the PPG are better manufactured then the other 2. Now the original question I had and based on the feed back in this post people are breaking gears from all 3 companies is the price different worth it?
Seems to me it's more like which gears will get me more hits before breaking,
Then I got to think which replacement parts are easier and faster to get.

SPOOLINmatt

Liberty set 1-4 and FD $3950 Includes Cuff
Optional but suggested
Billet case 1950
Speed factory SCHA $500

gringotegra

I will have another option for a dogbox within 6 months.

Helical Cut with Dog Engagement, 4 speed with a cuff and 5 speed option (dog engagement!)


I should have it in my car by the end of the year, testing early next year.

The 5 speed option will be more of a "street" oriented while the 4 speed with cuff will be drag race specific.

These are the same guys who made the dogbox in our Evo X Drag car, (2850lbs) has ran a 8.59@171mph right now with 0 issues. It is also a 5 speed box.

EJ1_Ex

iTrader: (1)

^^^let us know!

AROD

I ran both liberty and PPG with the billet housing.

Liberty is great for the price and great around 900hp range if installed and braced right. I would have to change out 3rd gear each season if it didn't break, but it was cheap $250.

When the car was making more HP and hooking in 2nd gear (3.8-330 and 5.6 1/8th) i started breaking gear after two passes.

Now i have the newer PPG stuff and its been working and taking the abuse, consistent 8.4 all summer.

My pick to start out would be Liberty unless you have the money for PPG.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

So with my little over 800whp my PPG set and Liberty Bell housing should last for a good while.

AROD

yea for sure, if you don't have clutch issues that can cause the dogs to round off easy you should be fine. That's one thing i liked about liberty if the dogs rounded off you can flip and slider and get another round before buying a new slider for $100.

With PPG the dog is built in the gear , so you would have to get it cut or buy a new $700 gear.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear, I was thinking of going with the Liberty but heard that 4th gear is good for maybe 30 passes but of course that is at a lot higher power then I make.

I figured if I just went all out the first time it would save me hassle down the road if I push more power.

Just trying to think about long term instead of short term.