Degreeing Cams?
09-01-2009, 01:08 PM
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Degreeing Cams?
I am going to attempt to degree my cams in this weekend using the Mike Belben kit. I found a nice write up by 12 NV but was wondering how checking V2V clearance and P2V clearance comes into play when degreeing the cams? Is this only needed if you do not have a cam card?
Here are the two threads I have found.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...degreeing+cams
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/how-v2v-p2v-1891614/
Are there any other good write ups out there to degree the cams on a B series motor?
Any advice or common mistakes you can offer to make doing this job easier.
Thanks
Here are the two threads I have found.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...degreeing+cams
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/how-v2v-p2v-1891614/
Are there any other good write ups out there to degree the cams on a B series motor?
Any advice or common mistakes you can offer to make doing this job easier.
Thanks
09-01-2009, 01:42 PM
#2
Re: Degreeing Cams?
checking V2V and P2V are more important than actually degreeing in the cams.
the reason for this is because if you know your clearances than you know exactly where your "safe window" is to play w/ the gears on the dyno. however if you only degree them in w/o checking clearances you can still end up w/ a catastrophic failure from not enough clearance.
for example when i checked the clearances w/ my skunk pro3's, i found after degreeing them in i only had .028 v2V when degreed to skunks centerline spec.
so i had to pull them away from centerline, basicaly "un-degree" them to gain adequate clearance.
having said that, the bleben kit is excellent and 12 NV's writeup is great. i would definately recomend checking V2V w/ the head off the motor and on a work bench. i learned alot doing this. then you can simply check P2V w/ the motor together using the helper springs while degreeing the cams.
degreeing the cams is very simple once you understand how everything works. checking V2V is the time consuming part.
as for tips i would definately suggest making a chart like 12NV did and once you find that .030 area or whatever clearance your shooting for, then it will become more obviouse which cam settings to check as you go along. you will find that you wont have to check every cam setting, but rather only the settings which will put you on either side of your "safe zone" staggered line as illustrated in the graph.
another tip, make sure when you fasten the dial indicators to the aluminum fixture that the indicator isnt resting against the head casting or the rocker arm. you want the tip to sit on the outer edge or the retainer w/o rubbing against anything.
for locking vtec i didnt use the small bb's they included. i actually used a couple of small washers which fit into the rocker very nicely although i dont see why the bb's wouldnt work. they were just so small i didnt feel like messing w/ them haha
also before bolting down the fixture to the head, make sure the tdc dial indicator set screw is facing towards the t belt. it will save you the time of re-configuring it otherwise.
and you dont have to pull the head back off to replace your valvesprings. you can set the piston at tdc and let the valve rest against it while installing the springs and retainers if you are capable.
goodluck and if you have any questions just pm me
the reason for this is because if you know your clearances than you know exactly where your "safe window" is to play w/ the gears on the dyno. however if you only degree them in w/o checking clearances you can still end up w/ a catastrophic failure from not enough clearance.
for example when i checked the clearances w/ my skunk pro3's, i found after degreeing them in i only had .028 v2V when degreed to skunks centerline spec.
so i had to pull them away from centerline, basicaly "un-degree" them to gain adequate clearance.
having said that, the bleben kit is excellent and 12 NV's writeup is great. i would definately recomend checking V2V w/ the head off the motor and on a work bench. i learned alot doing this. then you can simply check P2V w/ the motor together using the helper springs while degreeing the cams.
degreeing the cams is very simple once you understand how everything works. checking V2V is the time consuming part.
as for tips i would definately suggest making a chart like 12NV did and once you find that .030 area or whatever clearance your shooting for, then it will become more obviouse which cam settings to check as you go along. you will find that you wont have to check every cam setting, but rather only the settings which will put you on either side of your "safe zone" staggered line as illustrated in the graph.
another tip, make sure when you fasten the dial indicators to the aluminum fixture that the indicator isnt resting against the head casting or the rocker arm. you want the tip to sit on the outer edge or the retainer w/o rubbing against anything.
for locking vtec i didnt use the small bb's they included. i actually used a couple of small washers which fit into the rocker very nicely although i dont see why the bb's wouldnt work. they were just so small i didnt feel like messing w/ them haha
also before bolting down the fixture to the head, make sure the tdc dial indicator set screw is facing towards the t belt. it will save you the time of re-configuring it otherwise.
and you dont have to pull the head back off to replace your valvesprings. you can set the piston at tdc and let the valve rest against it while installing the springs and retainers if you are capable.
goodluck and if you have any questions just pm me
Last edited by NAH2B; 09-01-2009 at 02:35 PM.
09-01-2009, 02:10 PM
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Re: Degreeing Cams?
the reason for this is because if you know your clearances than you know exactly where your "safe window" is to play w/ the gears on the dyno. however if you only degree them in w/o checking clearances you can still end up w/ a catastrophic failure from not enough clearance.
as for tips i would definately suggest making a chart like 12NV did and once you find that .030 area or whatever clearance your shooting for, then it will become more obviouse which cam settings to check as you go along. you will find that you wont have to check every cam setting, but rather only the settings which will put you on either side of your "safe zone" staggered line as illustrated in the graph.
as for tips i would definately suggest making a chart like 12NV did and once you find that .030 area or whatever clearance your shooting for, then it will become more obviouse which cam settings to check as you go along. you will find that you wont have to check every cam setting, but rather only the settings which will put you on either side of your "safe zone" staggered line as illustrated in the graph.
NAH2B so after you degree the cams you still mess with them on the dyno? I was under the impression that after you degreed them that is where you will obtain the most power?
You talked about finding that .030 area is there a standard area such as .030 that everyone shoots for? Is there to much or to little?
Sorry if these are dumb questions but this is all new to me.
09-01-2009, 02:39 PM
#4
Re: Degreeing Cams?
NAH2B so after you degree the cams you still mess with them on the dyno? I was under the impression that after you degreed them that is where you will obtain the most power?
You talked about finding that .030 area is there a standard area such as .030 that everyone shoots for? Is there to much or to little?
Sorry if these are dumb questions but this is all new to me.
You talked about finding that .030 area is there a standard area such as .030 that everyone shoots for? Is there to much or to little?
Sorry if these are dumb questions but this is all new to me.
i wouldnt want to run any less than .030 V2V on an N/A motor although people do it all the time. not sure if a boosted motor would be different?
09-01-2009, 02:41 PM
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Re: Degreeing Cams?
09-01-2009, 05:21 PM
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Re: Degreeing Cams?
I check clicking clearance first since you have to do it with the head on the bench and it's usually tighter than the P2V, especially if you run big lift cams or with a thicker head gasket.
I'll leave the check springs in until after I've checked P2V clearance and then pump the cylinder with air to hold the valves up while I swap them out.
We run no less than .040" clearance, but try to keep it to > or equal to .050" for both clearances if the degreeing allows; this is at zero lash, so you'll have room to hug the limit.
I'll leave the check springs in until after I've checked P2V clearance and then pump the cylinder with air to hold the valves up while I swap them out.
We run no less than .040" clearance, but try to keep it to > or equal to .050" for both clearances if the degreeing allows; this is at zero lash, so you'll have room to hug the limit.
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