BlueS6Coupe

Thanks John, as always a wealth of technical ideas. I stalled working on the engine for my convertible project due to not being able to get the centrifugal oil filter shaft / bearing out of the block.It would have been nice if there was even the most minor of access behind the shaft to knock it through. But I guess 40 years ago Honda did not anticipate anyone would care enough to see it as a problem. Regards Michael

kev84

u know, its like ur doing the engine stuff, when im on the body stuff, but yeah your car body isnt as bad as mine, so better save mine before it turns into dusts! but least i would have an idea what to do later

BMS250FORD

I got 2 Exhaust headers grit blasted. My original header is OK except for a couple of dents. The other has a small hole. I intend making up a temporary tail pipe using some nice Burns Stainless Steel collectors and a megaphone that have been surplus about the workshop. I will mill a matching flange plate from 6mm SS which may get used later when the final exhaust is made. For now it is just for fun. I found that the flange layout is not square and not very symmetrical in shape. I turned up a plug for the pipe holes so that I could accurately measure the centre distances from 2 of the studs as a datum. I then triangulated the measurements to calculate the co-ordinates of the hole centres. The pipe ID is about 26mm and the studs are M8. The sketch is 2:1 scale and the LH stud is used as an origin (0,0)

BMS250FORD

I have had a request to sell a spare horn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQKKWkX_p4

My car is fitted with twin Horns which may not be original? Does anyone recognize the configuration? The 2 spare horns are different to each other and different to my car's horns. One of the spare horns doesn't work at present.
I am reluctant to part with my spares until I determine what is original and what can be fixed.

kev84

hey, those are originals i think

they are original optional accesories

refer to the parts book, they are right at the back

these are twin mounted mitsuba horns

so yeah i think they are original, just like the sketching i saw on the manual book

btw, john, do u happen to have the coupe trunk locking mechanism and the glove box lid, my painter has misplaced them.

im still looking for it , hopefully stashed somewhere in the shop, but hope u have spares to part with

kevin

btw, did u noticed the 3 s cars in melbourne?

BMS250FORD

Not the same Kev.

kev84

has the labelling faded? perhaps the mounting might have been replaced? but its hard to determine, it looks like it, but it could be that horns do look like those in those days

Bozwell

is one high tone and the other low tone hence the different look? two horns of the same tone sound odd when they are used together, although your brackets do look a little home made. iv'e got a couple of spares, one off my car and the other off the car i broke up that had been sitting for 30 years. they both work perfectly despite looking very rough and are really loud. two aren't needed .

Bobs600

I can tell you that my convertible has only one horn, mounted on the left side in front of, and to the left of, the radiator.

A page or so back, we had a short exchange on the use of stainless in this engine. I've since asked another friend, an emeritus professor of metallurgical engineering and a car guy with some interesting restoration experience. He said it's no problem with the aluminum, and he actually prefers stainless fasteners over carbon steel where water is a possibility. So no worries!

BMS250FORD

Back to the engine build. I want to find the best water pumps in the junk pile. I have bought a water pump kit from Ortmann. I decided to strip 4 pumps and examine the bearings and seals and see if anything is salvageable. One of the impellers shattered when I tried to press the shaft out.

BMS250FORD

Fitted the Ortmann kit to the best pump casing. The kit is supplied with an impeller that fits the S800. It needs to be thinned a little and reduced from 60 to 58mm in diameter. The face is not square and needs to be tapered at around 9 degrees to match the pump cover. The impeller is a press fit to the shaft with no circlip reqired. The ceramic water seal is better than the original. If your pump casings are good then the Ortmann kit is all you need to rebuild your pump. All good.

BlueS6Coupe

Thanks for the technical detail, did you turn down the impeller on a lathe and how did you deal with the thickness, I looked at mine and put it back in the box for another day. Mr Ortmann says the original impeller cannot be used or re-used with his kit, would you think this to be correct. Regards

BMS250FORD

The impeller needs to be turned in a lathe. The rear of the impeller is stepped so gripping it in a 3 jaw chuck is easy. Reducing the diameter is a simple cut just avoid running into the chuck jaws. I used a 1mm aluminium spacer on the face of each jaw to hold the job clear. The tapered face is around 9 degrees off square. I swung the top-slide through 99 degrees to achieve this 9 degree cut. I measured an original S600 impeller and found the outside thickness to be around 10mm. I took light cuts across the face using the top-slide to feed the tool until the outer thickness was reduced to 10mm.
A very light deburr on the linisher, cleaned it up. It took me about an hour to work it out but I could machine another one now in about 10 mins.

trewqs600

Hi john ,about your horns the two off the car are orginal the two on the car appear non original I need a better photo .An optional extra was a two horn bracket like the one in the diagram but for two horns the two different tones idea sounds plausible.

trewqs600

Forgot to tell you these horns are almost indestructible have a simple coil magnett vibrating action and a set of points when cleaned will probably function.

BMS250FORD

Today I disassembled 2 distributors. Mine is the dirtier 10C and the other from the Tassy junk 6C. Both had a mixture of bearing brands and mine was missing the spacer between the bearings. Both have 1 firm spring and 1 weak spring on the Governor. Both units are salvageable. Will replace the bearings tomorrow and fit the oil seal from the Ortmann engine gasket kit. I shall turn up a new spacer.

BlueS6Coupe

One of the most interesting things about early S6 cars is the amount of variation in parts. When I was 20 (which was 300 years ago), it was a pain to go to Honda, buy a part and find it did not fit. You would go back and they would order in something else that may or may not have suited your need.
Now it is really interesting as it creates an entire topic for discussion, as many parts were superceded very quickly.
This post highlights the minor differences in Denso distributors.
Then there was also Hitachi distributors fitted to a small range of S6 cars.
The Hitachi distributors were different in so many ways that most parts were not interchangeable.
Many years back I had a car with an Hitachi distributor, the problem was, due to engine transplants, Honda dealers were unable to ascertain the correct part for a car based purely on the Vin numbers.

BMS250FORD

The bearings are readily available. It is cheaper to buy the ones with side seals and they are easily removed. I decided to leave them in any way. I think the factory lubrication maybe better than engine oil.

BMS250FORD

I machined another Ortmann Water pump Impeller yesterday and took a couple of pictures in the lathe. Notice the cross slide rotated 99 degrees to machine the tapered face of the impeller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpoYB_jwFIA
I am determined to bore you to tears.

paton5g

Excellent work. Lots of dedication. Keep it up and good luck with the rest of the project.

BMS250FORD

Frank and Peter have answered my question about the 2 different springs on the Dizzy governor. Frank's link to his website gives a real insghit to the Honda S-car distributor. A good read for all owners. My question posed to the Just-S forum is last.


Re: Denso Distributor Governor Springs

Posted by: "as28564444" as280@mac.com as28564444

Sat Dec 4, 2010 7:34 pm (PST)


http://web.mac.com/as280/Sregistry/Electrical_.html

:-) FA

--- In Just-S@yahoogroups.com, Peter Watkins <honda@...> wrote:
>
> The S800 distributor is similar with the springs and one loose as such, this is probably to control the advance curve and seems correct. The only real way to check is on the engine and strobe the timing marks but unless the advance curve is known its a waste of time, on the 800 the full advance is at around 4000 REVS maybe higher on the 600 , probably in the manual. Just check that it gets to the full advance at about the correct revs.
>

> ========================================
> Message Received: Dec 04 2010, 12:37 AM
> From: "John"
> To: Just-S@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Subject: [Just-S] Denso Distributor Governor Springs
>
>
> I have disassembled 2 S600 distributors from engines with engine numbers around 1010000. One stamped 6C and the other 10C. Both seemed virtually identical. The Governor that advances the spark timing has 2 levers that move radially with centrifugal force resisted by 2 springs.
> The tension of the springs and the speed of the engine varies the spark advance. Both of these distributors have one weak spring? My initial thought was that one spring is no good? Or,is this how it should be? The weaker spring would only effect the spark advance at higher revs?
> They don't need to be matching springs? Is this how Honda achieves a non-linear advance curve? As both dizzys seem the same then maybe that is how they were designed and they are good to go as is?
> I don't know why one spring would weaken more that the other if they were matching springs originally?

BMS250FORD

More distributor pics. Anyone got new rotor buttons or distributor caps?

BMS250FORD

There is a lot to getting a distributor working properly and reliabily.

BMS250FORD

The top 2 blades, small one TNK and large MITSUBA are off my car. The next large pair are TRICO (Australian I Think) and the small pair are P.R. RAINBOW (made in England). The wiper arms are in very good condition and the same as the ones on my car. All these blades fit the arms. It maybe an industry standard connection? If so many aftermarket blades would fit the arms. Question is "what is original" ? The small TNK blade is the same brand as the arms. Should the car have 2 same size TNK blades?

kev84

TNK looks more ideal, its what i think i might have seen over the days