mattduskater

Every article I have read on how to make a fiberglass enclosure says to use fiber glass material, or it dosent mention it at all. My question is, is it nessary to use the fiberglass mat, or is it posable to just use resin? and if so how do I do it?

also has anyone heard of duraglass? a guy at an audio store told me to use it. It is the same stuff moste showers are made of. and do I use it just like regular fiberglass?

ATF Kuk

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattduskater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> My question is, is it nessary to use the fiberglass mat, or is it posable to just use resin? and if so how do I do it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

u dont have to use fiberglass mat, u can substitute it with a cloth material. fleece, sweaters, etc. are some of the things i can think of off the top of my head. as long the material will soak up the resin. the resin and the liquid hardener is the key to making it work. fiberglass would be better for it though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattduskater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
also has anyone heard of duraglass? a guy at an audio store told me to use it. It is the same stuff moste showers are made of. and do I use it just like regular fiberglass?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i have never used duraglass so i dont actually know how to work with it. im sure u can find tutorials online.

rcurley55

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ATF Kuk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u dont have to use fiberglass mat, u can substitute it with a cloth material. fleece, sweaters, etc. are some of the things i can think of off the top of my head. as long the material will soak up the resin. the resin and the liquid hardener is the key to making it work. fiberglass would be better for it though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hate to say this, but I REALLY disagree with you on this one!!!

In composite design, it is the fibers that carry the load, not the resin!! The resin is there to bond the fibers together! So, for example, if you made a fiberglass piece with strands all oriented in the direction of North to South, the piece will be extrememly strong in that direction, but extrememly weak in the East to West direction. So the goal is to orient your fibers in the direction that you want to carry the load. Also, good adhesion between layers is absolutely paramount.

Materials like fleece are TERRIBLE for strength and should NEVER be substituted for a proper mat or cloth. They are excellent for creating shapes that can be further reinforced, and that's about where the "good" part ends for fleece or other materials (i.e. cotton t-shirt material or grille cloth). Fleece is used in most glass boxes out there, but it's only there as a base, not as a load carrying component!

Fleece soaks up a TON of resin, and resin is expensive....as you add resin, you do not in any way add strength...you just add weight and waste money!

Again, just resin is worthless. What you are making (with just resin) is a part that is very heavy. At the same time, while it's hard, it's extremely brittle...same goes for fleece impregnated with resin...it's brittle. All you want is enough resin to bind your fibers together.

My favorite kind of material is knytex (go to tapplastics.com to see what I'm talking about) - it's a great mat/cloth hybrid.

Now, I have not used duraglass, but I have used a product that sounds similar (and it's second only to knytex in my list of favorite products) - Dynaglas. This is a fiberglass reinforced filler. It is an EXCELLENT choice for cosmetic panels or to bond wood and fiberglass parts together. After building your frame and stretching your fleece, then coating it in resin....let it cure. then add a layer of dynaglas to the back side of the panel. it will be rigid enough to begin the body work on the front side of the panel. It's a great product, but again, it's not a product that I would suggest you build an entire part out of.

The benefits of fiberglass in an audio application is that you can make a part any shape you want, it's strong, and it's light. To take advantage of these characteristics, use the proper fiberglass material and the proper resin...your project will be stronger, cheaper and easier in the end.


Modified by rcurley55 at 10:20 PM 8/5/2003

chamillion

yep you need to use the fiber mat because like said above, this is where your enclosures or whatever else you make will getr it's strength from.

ATF Kuk

i understand that fiberglass mat is better to use and why it is better to use it. but his question was, is it neccessary to use fiberglass mat. my answer is no, u can substitute it with other material. its not the right way to do it, but it can be done. all u need is MDF to reinforce the speaker weight and it will work. i answered his question according to the way it was asked. i did not say that fleece would turn out the same as fiberglass mat. i said fiberglass mat would be better but without an explanation as to why it is better. that is another topic and question.

rcurley55

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ATF Kuk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i understand that fiberglass mat is better to use and why it is better to use it. but his question was, is it neccessary to use fiberglass mat. my answer is no, u can substitute it with other material. its not the right way to do it, but it can be done. all u need is MDF to reinforce the speaker weight and it will work. i answered his question according to the way it was asked. i did not say that fleece would turn out the same as fiberglass mat. i said fiberglass mat would be better but without an explanation as to why it is better. that is another topic and question. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess you are right it can be done....if you want it to break.

I still don't see how you can feel comfortable telling someone they can use fleece as a structural component to a fiberglass enclosure.....the thing will break. Sure, technically, you answered his question, but did you help him at all...not really.

I can build a bridge out of popsicle sticks and some elmer's glue, but you gotta ask yourself....would you drive your car across it? I'm guessing no...

mattduskater

thanks for your help rcurley55. I just have one more question. after I put down a layer of fiberglass mat and resin then let it cure. How do I make it thicker? do I add more resin,another fiberglass mat, or both?

I also saw a type of fiberglass on tv that had fiberglass mat pieces that went into the resin and hardner mix. Is it any diffrent than regular fiberglass? and whats it called?

rcurley55

That's 4 questions...

You can add multiple layers at one time. Adding multiple layers actually helps to get a better cure b/c as the resin kicks off, it generates heat....by adding more layers, you get increased heat, and it helps to cure faster. But too hot, and you get cracks. Typically, if you are working in a good sized area, you won't be able to add enough layers before the resin kicks to cause any trouble.

Keep in mind that there are two common types of resin - polyester and epoxy. Generally, epoxy is stronger, but it's more expensive and not as easy to work with. Polyester tends to be more impact resistant (if memory serves). I always use poly resin. Now poly resins come in two "families" as well - surfacing, and laminating (or layup) resins. The surfacing resin has a wax agent in it that will rise to the surface as the resin cures. This leaves a smooth, non-tacky surface. This is a great feature if you don't want any more layers. If you do want to add more layers, then you will need to sand through that wax to get back to the tacky resin below. Or you can just get laminating resin...it doesn't have that wax agent in it, so it promotes better adhesion between layers.

So, you can add multiple layers at one time. Depending on the shape, size, and application, as few as 2 layers of light weight cloth may be sufficient or many layers of strong, heavyweight materials are needed....it all depends. There are many ways to add more layers, but remember, you don't have to wait for it to cure to add more, just be careful that you don't shift the pieces that are already down. you may also find it better to get a fiberglass roller to help remove the air bubbles between layers (these gaps weaken the piece significantly).

I honestly have no clue what you are speaking of with regards to the TV....I also dont' know what you mean by "regular" fiberglass.

"Fiberglass" is a really generic name for lots of products.

nsxxtreme

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you may also find it better to get a fiberglass roller to help remove the air bubbles between layers (these gaps weaken the piece significantly).</TD></TR></TABLE>

I Hate the damn BUBBLES!!!!!!!!

ATF Kuk

fiberglass breaks as well. thats y they have fiberglass repair kits

but seriously though. it will break only if u try to break it. if its left alone, it is strong enough. i have seen it and played with it myself.

eHoward

Once you try an Epoxy, you won't want to go back :-)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's 4 questions...


Keep in mind that there are two common types of resin - polyester and epoxy. . </TD></TR></TABLE>

eHoward

Remember, it's all just "String and Glue"

You can add dry fiberglass to the first wet layer and the second layer will soak up excess resin. I would practice on small pieces first before doing a large enclosure so you get the feel. Just stack mat on top of mat until it is thick enough. And wet it till it's wet enough. You can do calculations if you really feel like it to make sure it can support its own weight or take the load from the speakers.

I have no clue what you saw on TV.

If you call up Joel at AVTcomposites.com and tell him what you're looking to do, he will sell you the right stuff and tell you how to use it. You can tell him Howard told you to call. He's smart and is a good guy.

I tell this to people all the time and no one ever listens to me, buy Forbes Aird's book on composites and read it. Then all of this will make a lot more sense. Composite Materials: Engineering and Science by Mattews is also good but much more technical.

I'm going to do a post when I get my materials in, for a custom box in a CRX either next week or the week after that will go through the process step by step. I have the subs and the amp and am dying to get em in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattduskater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for your help rcurley55. I just have one more question. after I put down a layer of fiberglass mat and resin then let it cure. How do I make it thicker? do I add more resin,another fiberglass mat, or both?

I also saw a type of fiberglass on tv that had fiberglass mat pieces that went into the resin and hardner mix. Is it any diffrent than regular fiberglass? and whats it called?
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