Mr JDM South

http://www.clifford.com/Produc...D=719

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who gets me alarms pretty cheap. He called a dealer for a price on the avantguard 5.1 plus installation but the dealer refused to install it. he said it was unsafe to install due to the car being manual. im guessing its because the kit includes a remote start feature.

Has anyone had any experience with this unit or can provide any information that will help me out.

Features Include

4 Channel Security / Remote Start System with Optional Keyless Entry
IntelliStart™ 4
BlackJax™ 5 Anti-Carjacking System
ACG2 Anti-Code Grabbing Technology
Built-In Parking Light Flasher
Selectable Dual-Point Smart Secure Immobilization
Remotely Adjustable Dual-Zone OmniSensor
Remotely Adjustable Proximity Sensor
Tilt Sensor
Smart Self-Powered Siren
Bright Blue LED Status Indicator
PlainView2 Coded Valet/Override Switch
CliffNet™ DataPort
3 Auxiliary Channels
Includes Two 5-Button Remote Controls


<U>
4 Channel Security / Remote Start System with Optional Keyless Entry

The AvantGuard 5.1 is Clifford’s premier G5 security and remote start system, which comes with the BlackJackTM 5 anti-carjacking system, dual-zone OmniSensor, G5 glass break sensor and Medallion2 programmable siren. This state-of-the-art system is operated by two 5-button remote controls.


</U>

B18C_EJ8

Did you have a question in there?

Lots of us have experience with the Clifford units. No DEI unit (equipped with remote start) is intended to be installed into a vehicle with a manual transmission, and that's why the other retailer wouldn't install it.

This "friend who gets you alarms cheap" is an authorized DEI reseller, yes?

nsxxtreme

You can still install this in your car.

If your smart or know someone clever you can build a sensor that will tell if your car is in gear. This is what I did for the Avantguard I had.

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can still install this in your car.

If your smart or know someone clever you can build a sensor that will tell if your car is in gear. This is what I did for the Avantguard I had.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so im guessing anyone that has experience with alarms should be capable of installing this sensor.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you have a question in there?

Lots of us have experience with the Clifford units. No DEI unit (equipped with remote start) is intended to be installed into a vehicle with a manual transmission, and that's why the other retailer wouldn't install it.

This "friend who gets you alarms cheap" is an authorized DEI reseller, yes?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well i guess my question was is this true as far as it not being safe to install that kind of unit into a manual vehicle. thanks for the confirmation,

i dont believe he is a reseller but he sells audio equipment so he has hook ups

suspendedHatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr JDM South &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so im guessing anyone that has experience with alarms should be capable of installing this sensor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not just any installer. It's pretty difficult.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well i guess my question was is this true as far as it not being safe to install that kind of unit into a manual vehicle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's true that you're never really safe with a remote start on a manual transmission. However, I'm considering making an iteration of my site that shows you every possible safeguard, just because I know people are going to go against my advice and do remote start on a manual anyway.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i dont believe he is a reseller but he sells audio equipment so he has hook ups</TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem here is that there is no lifetime warranty unless he's a DEI authorized retailer.

B18C_EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr JDM South &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont believe he is a reseller but he sells audio equipment so he has hook ups</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then please know that if you buy an alarm from him, you will have no warranty through DEI.

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Then please know that if you buy an alarm from him, you will have no warranty through DEI.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow i didnt even think of that but ill ask him if there is anyway to warranty it from the store/shop he is referring me to for the purchase.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not just any installer. It's pretty difficult.

It's true that you're never really safe with a remote start on a manual transmission. However, I'm considering making an iteration of my site that shows you every possible safeguard, just because I know people are going to go against my advice and do remote start on a manual anyway.

The problem here is that there is no lifetime warranty unless he's a DEI authorized retailer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i didnt know that the remote start feature was that difficult to disable

nsxxtreme

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not just any installer. It's pretty difficult.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It really is not that difficult but obviously clever or the manufacturer of these alarms would have come up with it. I have had a few shop owners ask me to patent it and sell it to the alarm companies. I have no time or energy to do such a thing.

There are bright installers they should be able to come up with something. It obviously should be self checking. Meaning the sensor should test itself to make sure its working before ever allowing the vehicle to start.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr JDM South &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so im guessing anyone that has experience with alarms should be capable of installing this sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No they would need to be very skilled and inventive.

If your happy with the car start feature not working they should be able to still hook the alarm up but without carstart.

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If your happy with the car start feature not working they should be able to still hook the alarm up but without carstart.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

cool. i think i know of a place that can probably pull it off. theyre pretty reliable when it comes to cliffords

fcm

My question is, if you do not want remote start, why not just get the alarm, and not pay for something you are not going to use? 94

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> My question is, if you do not want remote start, why not just get the alarm, and not pay for something you are not going to use? 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

you were kinda throwin me off with that post but thats probably what ima do is just find someone reliable and efficient and have them set up a go around for the remote start mechanism.

8520

1. The Ag5.1 is simplu an AG5 with a newer remote. Nothing more.

2. They both use the intellistart IV rs system which is designed FOR manual transmissions. It uses a "safe shutdown" where you have to "set up" remote start everytime you want to use it. If your alarm is set off before you try to rs, it will not start . Period.

3. If you don't want to have rs, simply have them install the alarm without the intellistart IV, after all it's just a second "black box".

Oh and fcm, before you get to it, I know the AG5.1 probably doesn't list in their install pdf how to set it up for rs in a manual, but if you look up the Intellistart IV, I'm pretty sure it does.

fcm

before beginning the installation
WARNING! This system is intended for automatic
transmission, fuel-injected vehicles only. Installation in a
standard transmission vehicle maybe dangerous and is
contrary to its intended use.

Although the Intellistart IV can be used in a standard, the AdvantGuard5.1 can not, [or I should say should not] as indicated by warning in manual, it does not have the "safe shutdown"

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr JDM South &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you were kinda throwin me off with that post but thats probably what ima do is just find someone reliable and efficient and have them set up a go around for the remote start mechanism.</TD></TR></TABLE> If you really want the remote start and you what to use the AdvantGuard 5.1, just get one of these... http://peripheralelectronics.c...rface 94

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">before beginning the installation
WARNING! This system is intended for automatic
transmission, fuel-injected vehicles only. Installation in a
standard transmission vehicle maybe dangerous and is
contrary to its intended use.

Although the Intellistart IV can be used in a standard, the AdvantGuard5.1 can not, [or I should say should not] as indicated by warning in manual, it does not have the "safe shutdown"

If you really want the remote start and you what to use the AdvantGuard 5.1, just get one of these... http://peripheralelectronics.c...rface 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

no i dont want the remote start. i just wanted to make sure there wasnt a difference between that advantguard 5 and the 5.1's remote start feature and that it can be disabled.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 8520 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. The Ag5.1 is simplu an AG5 with a newer remote. Nothing more.

2. They both use the intellistart IV rs system which is designed FOR manual transmissions. It uses a "safe shutdown" where you have to "set up" remote start everytime you want to use it. If your alarm is set off before you try to rs, it will not start . Period.

3. If you don't want to have rs, simply have them install the alarm without the intellistart IV, after all it's just a second "black box".

Oh and fcm, before you get to it, I know the AG5.1 probably doesn't list in their install pdf how to set it up for rs in a manual, but if you look up the Intellistart IV, I'm pretty sure it does. </TD></TR></TABLE>

so FCM says it doesnt have the safe shut down feature but you say it does lol. no biggie, alright so as long as its noted that their can be a go around/way to disable it then im good

fcm

OIC, there is no real diff. in the two units, then just wire everything up except the Intellistart IV module, it's as simple as that. 94

Mr JDM South

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> OIC, there is no real diff. in the two units, then just wire everything up except the Intellistart IV module, it's as simple as that. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont know why i thought it was more difficult then that. well i wont be doing it myself but im sure the dealer should be able to do so. its just that i havent heard of many people running on this alarm so i wasnt sure exactly what the specs were and if it was diff.

thanks for the help and tips homie

8520

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Although the Intellistart IV can be used in a standard, the AdvantGuard5.1 can not, [or I should say should not] as indicated by warning in manual, it does not have the "safe shutdown"

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm telling you fcm, I have physically had both the AvantGuard5 and the Avantguard5.1 are the EXACT same apart from the remotes. For "liability reasons" they state that it is not safe to install in a manual, but if you read the pdf for the Intellistart IV (which both alarms come with) it specifically says

"Remote engine starting - Manual or Automatic Transmissions, Gasoline or Diesel"

http://www.directeddealers.com...e.pdf

I have had the AG5 in 2 of my vehicles now, both of which were manuals, both of which had rs, and both of which it was nigh impossible to rs in gear.

I can explain to you the safety shutdown process if you'd like, but I don't think it would change your mind whatsoever


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr JDM South &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i dont know why i thought it was more difficult then that. well i wont be doing it myself but im sure the dealer should be able to do so. its just that i havent heard of many people running on this alarm so i wasnt sure exactly what the specs were and if it was diff.

thanks for the help and tips homie </TD></TR></TABLE>

If it was me, I'd take it to an installer who is familiar with clifford products

fcm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 8520 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm telling you fcm, I have physically had both the AvantGuard5 and the Avantguard5.1 are the EXACT same apart from the remotes. For "liability reasons" they state that it is not safe to install in a manual, but if you read the pdf for the Intellistart IV (which both alarms come with) it specifically says

"Remote engine starting - Manual or Automatic Transmissions, Gasoline or Diesel"

http://www.directeddealers.com...e.pdf

I have had the AG5 in 2 of my vehicles now, both of which were manuals, both of which had rs, and both of which it was nigh impossible to rs in gear.

I can explain to you the safety shutdown process if you'd like, but I don't think it would change your mind whatsoever

</TD></TR></TABLE> I understand how the safety shutdown works, I have worked for Clifford/DEI dealers for a very long time and have even installed the Intellistart IV in standards, but your right, I should have said it does not give you instructions on "safe shutdown" in either the AdvantGuard 5 or 5.1.

As for why there are no instructions and why the warning is there, and it may be a liability question down there, up here it voids the manufacturers warranty if installed in a manual transmission car.

So no, you will not change my mind, there are enough products out there for standards that I see no point in doing something that the manufacturer of the product tells you not to do or it will void the warranty. 94

8520

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I understand how the safety shutdown works, I have worked for Clifford/DEI dealers for a very long time and have even installed the Intellistart IV in standards, but your right, I should have said it does not give you instructions on "safe shutdown" in either the AdvantGuard 5 or 5.1.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok. I was not aware you had installed these.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for why there are no instructions and why the warning is there, and it may be a liability question down there, up here it voids the manufacturers warranty if installed in a manual transmission car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even if installed by an authorized dealer??? That seems so strange to me since it did not void the manufacturers warranty as long as we installed it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So no, you will not change my mind, there are enough products out there for standards that I see no point in doing something that the manufacturer of the product tells you not to do or it will void the warranty. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

Regardless of trying to change your mind - which really is irrelevant to the op at this stage - I was just trying to make others aware that the alarm does safely do rs on a manual.

I do find it bizarre that clifford continues to provide a product that can do one thing, yet fails to give adequate instructions on how to do so. Though I suppose it shouldn't surprise me since I have never found any documentation on turbo timer modes for said alarms

No hard feelings of course

fcm

No hard feelings of course Absolutly not. 94

Mr JDM South

so basically there is a way to wire up the remote start safely due to the intelistart IV feature. well thats a plus but honestly it wouldnt bother me not to have since i havent on my past two vehicles.

if i can do it and its easier that way to do it then ill go for it. i dont park my car in gear so its not like me having a remote start feautre on it and utilizing it would be a disadvantage to me.