Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > All Motor/ Naturally Aspirated
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-16-2010, 11:18 AM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

my engine is a stock b18c type R with intake and cat back exhaust for now.

i'll add header,de cat full 3'' exhaust and p28 ecu and later maybe aftermarket cams.

i need to change fuel pump what pump to go for?
i hear good things about walbro but witch fuel pump is better for my application 255 LPH or 190 ?

also do i need to buy bigger cc injectors as a replacement to maintain safety on my engine or keep and clean my oem b18 ?
thanks
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 12:44 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
2k.civic.si's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: los banos, ca
Posts: 3,914
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

255lph....440-550cc injectors is fine....you could probably get away with the stock injectors if you just bump the fuel pressure a bit.
__________________
EFI University Certified Advanced Tuner http://www.artietuned.com
Ecu chipping,Street/Dyno tuning,Crome Pro/Gold,AEM,FAST,Motec, and more.
www.westcoastnationals.org
2k.civic.si is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 11:12 AM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

thanks for your help i'll try 255 lph then.

anyone can recommend a decent injector brand than can be fitted on stock itr im ?
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
FlewByU352's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,563
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

IMO the 190LPH is plenty for most setups especially all motor. Injector size I see a lot running 310cc for just light mods.
FlewByU352 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 09:45 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

oem b18c are 310cc ?
if i choose 255 lph instead of 190 where is the bad?
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 12:15 AM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
FlewByU352's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,563
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

B series and D series IIRC are both 240CC. I think H series are 270CC? There is no bad going to the 255LPH other than some not being able to turn the fuel pressure down enough which I have seen. If your going turbo get the bigger pump. If your staying all motor I say get the 190. A B18C1 pump flows 131.04LPH and that supports what 180HP? The B18B flows 79.92LPH and thats at 140HP? As far as I know the D series are also at 79.92LPH supporting 127HP. The 131.04 actually supports the SI, GSR, and Type R meaning it has a range from 160HP - 200HP. Using the middle man GSR figures the pump is set for .728LPH/HP. Now for the 190LPH to get the same middle number is 260HP. Just saying that most all motor will likely never need the 255LPH. Maybe the math doesnt equate with different injector sizes coming into play but IDK it works for me lmao.

Heres good info on fuel pressure with pumps:
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...TopicID=143380

I guess it doesnt work that ay because it says on another site "Perfect upgrade or replacement for the stock fuel pump unit while providing a cleaner and more efficient fuel system to your engine. Recommended for all motor applications not exceeding more than 230+ whp."
FlewByU352 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 06:43 AM   #7
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

As an example, someone put down 203/156(stock EX Pump 79lph, 310cc)
and 214/153 (Stock Dx Pump 79lph, 310cc)

Fact: Liters to Cubic Centimeters: 1 L = 1000cc's

Example 79 lph pump = 79,000 cc's per hour

So, 79,000 cc's per hour divided by 60 minutes = 79,000/60 = 1316.66 cc's min

So, 1316.66 cc's min/4 injectors = 1316.66/4 = 329.16 cc's min

Which is plenty large enough to support a 310cc/min injector.

In turn that would indicate that an upgrade to the 135lph would be all that is needed in most cases for a healthy buffer of fuel volume.

Example: 135lph x 1000 = 135,000 cc's/hour

135,000/60(minutes in the hour) = 2250cc's/min

2250/4 injectors = 562.5 cc's/min (Would support 560cc 's per injector)

Basically for all intents and purposes I will only refer to the majority of modified Hondas/Acuras.

Fuel Pump Ratings are as follows:

1988-2000 Civic CX, DX, EX = 79 lph
1989-2001 Integra RS, GS, LS = 79 lph
1999-2000 Civic SI = 135 lph
1994-2001 Integra GSR = 135 lph
1997-2001 ITR = 135 lph


I have seen a few problems with all motor cars trying to turn down the fuel pressure when using a 255L pump and not getting it to where they need. I would also recomend the 190LPH pump.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 11:38 AM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

great info guys !

with 190 lph i will need a adjustable fuel regulator among with a fuel pressure gauge to calm down the extra pressure to oem specs before the 190lph installation?
unfortunately my tuner is 350km away from my place and i cant tune after installing this fuel pump...
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 11:59 AM   #9
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

You may not, you could always install the pump and see if the stock FPR can deal with it, otherwise you can add one, up to you.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 02:05 PM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
SP GARAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Terminal island
Posts: 4,550
iTrader Rating: (1)
ALLMOTORH2B
Send a message via AIM to SP GARAGE Send a message via Yahoo to SP GARAGE
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Red_SiR View Post
As an example, someone put down 203/156(stock EX Pump 79lph, 310cc)
and 214/153 (Stock Dx Pump 79lph, 310cc)

Fact: Liters to Cubic Centimeters: 1 L = 1000cc's

Example 79 lph pump = 79,000 cc's per hour

So, 79,000 cc's per hour divided by 60 minutes = 79,000/60 = 1316.66 cc's min

So, 1316.66 cc's min/4 injectors = 1316.66/4 = 329.16 cc's min

Which is plenty large enough to support a 310cc/min injector.

In turn that would indicate that an upgrade to the 135lph would be all that is needed in most cases for a healthy buffer of fuel volume.

Example: 135lph x 1000 = 135,000 cc's/hour

135,000/60(minutes in the hour) = 2250cc's/min

2250/4 injectors = 562.5 cc's/min (Would support 560cc 's per injector)

Basically for all intents and purposes I will only refer to the majority of modified Hondas/Acuras.

Fuel Pump Ratings are as follows:

1988-2000 Civic CX, DX, EX = 79 lph
1989-2001 Integra RS, GS, LS = 79 lph
1999-2000 Civic SI = 135 lph
1994-2001 Integra GSR = 135 lph
1997-2001 ITR = 135 lph


I have seen a few problems with all motor cars trying to turn down the fuel pressure when using a 255L pump and not getting it to where they need. I would also recomend the 190LPH pump.
great post
__________________
DD TECH camshafts*QSD* SYNCROTECH TRANSMISSIONS*PROSTREET IMPORT*FOREVER ASHBURY
SP GARAGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 09:05 AM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Red_SiR View Post
You may not, you could always install the pump and see if the stock FPR can deal with it, otherwise you can add one, up to you.


about bigger injectors need a remap right away installation or is it safe to drive to the tuner with my stock p72 ecu ??
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 02:01 PM   #12
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

From what I recall, anything larger than 310cc and you'll need a remap right away. I would check with your tuner to be sure.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 11:04 AM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

what brand injectors to choose-buy ?
i know that nothing can beat oem reliability but oem injectors have crazy prize !
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 11:57 AM   #14
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

RC injectors are fine.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 04:58 PM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
GoldMember74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Putrajaya
Posts: 30
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

I think you should stick with the OEM injectors at the moment and upgrade later when you need it i.e. after putting in aftermarket cams n your tuner is available...the OEM injectors are sufficient up until 200whp, just have them cleaned and do flow testing while you're at it...a cheaper solution would be H22A injectors but you'll need a ballast to go with it...
GoldMember74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 08:14 AM   #16
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

RC injectors hmmm some friends had some problems with them

also i heard that the cleaning machine can damage/make the life of injectors shorter
i've seen k series injectors running on b series even from rdx

mainly i want to run bigger injectors just for safety reason
runing them under 80% even with 190lph fuel pump some extra cc is more safe i think than oem 240cc.
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 08:28 AM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Quebec, QC, Canada
Posts: 1,097
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

I recommand Injector Dynamics better spray pattern, and more power could be achieved if you run them at ~90 psi

don't forget that when you upgrade to a high flow fuel pump, you need to upgrade the wiring too
__________________
eCtune Authorize Tuner
http://www.precisionautocanada.com
Garrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 09:09 AM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
todahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hellas
Posts: 189
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I recommand Injector Dynamics better spray pattern, and more power could be achieved if you run them at ~90 psi

don't forget that when you upgrade to a high flow fuel pump, you need to upgrade the wiring too
the smallest they make is 725cc i think it's too big for I/H/E all motor b18 don't you think ?
also why i need to upgrade wiring i don't think it affects the fuel pumps performance so much again for my set up.
todahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 09:18 AM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
OH_1fstgsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Posts: 1,960
iTrader Rating: (2)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todahead View Post
the smallest they make is 725cc i think it's too big for I/H/E all motor b18 don't you think ?
also why i need to upgrade wiring i don't think it affects the fuel pumps performance so much again for my set up.
Take a look a FIC, Fuel Injector Clinic, very similar to ID's.
725cc is to big but you can adjust the size in the programable ECU and they will run fine.
__________________
"An Action without Philosophy is a Lethal Weapon, Philosophy without Action is a Worthless." - Soichiro Honda
1999 GSR 190whp/136tq 29.6mpg with AC ON!/2007 TL Type-S
OH_1fstgsr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 12:21 PM   #20
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todahead View Post
the smallest they make is 725cc i think it's too big for I/H/E all motor b18 don't you think ?
also why i need to upgrade wiring i don't think it affects the fuel pumps performance so much again for my set up.
I and most people on this board have run RC injectors without any trouble. Just because someone has a problem doesn't mean you will, especially when the problems are uncommon to begin with. 725cc are way more than you need but so is anything over stock (240 cc) or 310cc in your case. Honda injectors are safe to run at theduty cycle you listed because they don't run at that level for very long but are more than capable and proven to do so without a problem. I upgraded to the Injector Dynamics (ID) or FIC (Fuel injector Clinic) 1000cc injectors on my 1.8L build. They are way more than I need but aren't a problem to run or tune because I have a tunable ecu (Hondata S300). These are a Bosch style of injector which are similar to the RDX injector. If you're trying to eek out every last ounce of HP on your build, upgrading to this type of injector is the way to go but it will cost you. That's why I suggested RC injectors, they are all you'd ever need with your build. The cleaning machine doesn't shorten the life of the injector either, it's not like you are subjecting them to a cleaning once a week.

You can increase the fuel pumps output by installing a heavier gauge wire which increases the amount of voltage going to the pump due to less resistance in the wire. I doubt you will need to do so for your build or on a 190lph pump. On a race motor, I would do it.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 12:47 PM   #21
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Quebec, QC, Canada
Posts: 1,097
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todahead View Post
the smallest they make is 725cc i think it's too big for I/H/E all motor b18 don't you think ?
also why i need to upgrade wiring i don't think it affects the fuel pumps performance so much again for my set up.
since the aftermarket fuel pump need more current (A), with the OEM wiring that cannot give this current that the pump need, the voltage drop

when the voltage drop, the flow is reduce, and the pump longevity will be an issue
__________________
eCtune Authorize Tuner
http://www.precisionautocanada.com
Garrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 06:31 PM   #22
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
GoldMember74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Putrajaya
Posts: 30
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

so what would be the recommended wire size for 255lph fuel pump?...
GoldMember74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 04:01 AM   #23
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Quebec, QC, Canada
Posts: 1,097
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember74 View Post
so what would be the recommended wire size for 255lph fuel pump?...
10-12 AWG
__________________
eCtune Authorize Tuner
http://www.precisionautocanada.com
Garrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 03:21 PM   #24
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
94eg!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Posts: 7,546
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Sorry to jump in, but this makes me wonder: Should I think about upgrading my fuel pump? I'm running the stock 94 CX pump with my 96-spec B18C Type R swap. No internal mods and none planned. Just a BPi v-stack, short ram intake, replica narrow header and a 2.5" exhaust (with JDM R cat).

I ask because I'm thinking it's about time for a dyno tune now (running P28 w/ Kenji's 91 octane basemap), and I want to have the car fully prepared before getting it done. This car is just for fun, and I don't race or anything. Probably sees mid 8k rpms once or twice every time I drive it...

I am surprised the stock 79lph pumps can support over 200whp.
__________________
HE>i
94eg! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 03:36 PM   #25
All Motor Mentor
2000 Honda Civic
 
00Red_SiR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 6,987
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: what fuel pump and fuel injectors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94eg! View Post
Sorry to jump in, but this makes me wonder: Should I think about upgrading my fuel pump? I'm running the stock 94 CX pump with my 96-spec B18C Type R swap. No internal mods and none planned. Just a BPi v-stack, short ram intake, replica narrow header and a 2.5" exhaust (with JDM R cat).

I ask because I'm thinking it's about time for a dyno tune now (running P28 w/ Kenji's 91 octane basemap), and I want to have the car fully prepared before getting it done. This car is just for fun, and I don't race or anything. Probably sees mid 8k rpms once or twice every time I drive it...

I am surprised the stock 79lph pumps can support over 200whp.

check out post #7 above.
__________________
"And what have you ever done besides troll on H-T and act like you have a clue? A cam swap? A shiny car with expensive wheels? Hard parking nut swinging troll...." -Natural Aspirations describing the All Motor forum and saying what needs to be said.
00Red_SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
1000, 97, b18c1, cc, civic, comparison, cx, fuel, gsr, honda, injector, injectors, integra, motor, pump, si, stock

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:25 PM.



2008 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details