Tune Ignition Maps
07-04-2011, 09:50 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Tune Ignition Maps
I'm going to the dyno this week and had some questions on ignition tuning. Specs of the engine:
b18c1 engine
81.5mm RS Machine ITR Pistons
3" short ram intake
Vibrant 4-2-1 Header 2.5"
2.5" Catback
Chipped P72 on Crome
LC-1 Wideband
AFR has been done on the street. ~13.2 WOT
I'd like to tune the ignition timing. Currently using Crome P72 Base Ignition maps. When i'm on the dyno, should I disable the knock sensor? How do you guys tune the ignition for the entire map range? Do a base run on one column map, up the timing on that column map and do another run. Keep increasing the timing until I reach MBT or start knocking? Then go to the next column map and do the same? Looking for some advice, let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
b18c1 engine
81.5mm RS Machine ITR Pistons
3" short ram intake
Vibrant 4-2-1 Header 2.5"
2.5" Catback
Chipped P72 on Crome
LC-1 Wideband
AFR has been done on the street. ~13.2 WOT
I'd like to tune the ignition timing. Currently using Crome P72 Base Ignition maps. When i'm on the dyno, should I disable the knock sensor? How do you guys tune the ignition for the entire map range? Do a base run on one column map, up the timing on that column map and do another run. Keep increasing the timing until I reach MBT or start knocking? Then go to the next column map and do the same? Looking for some advice, let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
07-05-2011, 04:20 AM
#2
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Re: Tune Ignition Maps
I "normally" always have the knock sensor disabled.
I also tend to not really fool with the low cam ign, unless it is needed. Most of the time the low cam ign maps are pretty good. I tend to use the p30 ign maps as a base anyway.
On the dyno, after you have street tuned the car, you'll want to see if small adjustments make a difference. I usually tune high cam ign maps AFTER vtec engagement. Try adding 2 degrees and see if it makes a difference, if not Take 2 degrees away from the initinal starting mark.
You'll want to change where you are in the run, WOT usually includes the last 2 colunms or so depending on how your scaling is setup and how your car is reading.
When you find your max ign, back it off a degree or 2. Normally for setups like yours, you shouldn't exceed about 28-30 degrees max wot ign.. that should do you fine.
You can tune ign on the street, but unless you can read plugs properly it tends to be a headache.
If you'd like to post your map i can take a look at it or share your bin. Also.. keep in mind, you want your maps as smooth as possible, no crossing lines, or anything like that. Take your time to make your map smooth.. the car then, will run smooth too. Make sure to take advantage of the advanced tables as well, those play a big role in power.
I also tend to not really fool with the low cam ign, unless it is needed. Most of the time the low cam ign maps are pretty good. I tend to use the p30 ign maps as a base anyway.
On the dyno, after you have street tuned the car, you'll want to see if small adjustments make a difference. I usually tune high cam ign maps AFTER vtec engagement. Try adding 2 degrees and see if it makes a difference, if not Take 2 degrees away from the initinal starting mark.
You'll want to change where you are in the run, WOT usually includes the last 2 colunms or so depending on how your scaling is setup and how your car is reading.
When you find your max ign, back it off a degree or 2. Normally for setups like yours, you shouldn't exceed about 28-30 degrees max wot ign.. that should do you fine.
You can tune ign on the street, but unless you can read plugs properly it tends to be a headache.
If you'd like to post your map i can take a look at it or share your bin. Also.. keep in mind, you want your maps as smooth as possible, no crossing lines, or anything like that. Take your time to make your map smooth.. the car then, will run smooth too. Make sure to take advantage of the advanced tables as well, those play a big role in power.
07-05-2011, 11:53 PM
#3
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Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Is their really any good way to tune timing on the street? More specifically an AP1 with AEM EMS version 2. The supplied basemap seems to have very conservative timing.
07-06-2011, 02:31 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Just got done at the Dyno.
Before Settings:
Vtec 4872
IAB 5752
After Settings:
Vtec 4440
IAB 5752
Not much change because I did a lot of street tuning before hand. I spent about 2 hours on the dyno. Spent the 1st hour messing with AFR. Last hour making changes to the WOT ignition timing and setting VTEC and IAB crossover. Let me know what you guys think.
Before Settings:
Vtec 4872
IAB 5752
After Settings:
Vtec 4440
IAB 5752
Not much change because I did a lot of street tuning before hand. I spent about 2 hours on the dyno. Spent the 1st hour messing with AFR. Last hour making changes to the WOT ignition timing and setting VTEC and IAB crossover. Let me know what you guys think.
07-06-2011, 03:05 PM
#6
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Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Very decent numbers. I believe a better manifold and a set of cams would definitely wake this motor up . Good job, Love to see DIY tuners coming up again.
Whats your 2d maps look like..?
Whats your 2d maps look like..?
07-06-2011, 05:14 PM
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07-07-2011, 04:13 AM
#10
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
I "normally" always have the knock sensor disabled.
I also tend to not really fool with the low cam ign, unless it is needed. Most of the time the low cam ign maps are pretty good. I tend to use the p30 ign maps as a base anyway.
On the dyno, after you have street tuned the car, you'll want to see if small adjustments make a difference. I usually tune high cam ign maps AFTER vtec engagement. Try adding 2 degrees and see if it makes a difference, if not Take 2 degrees away from the initinal starting mark.
You'll want to change where you are in the run, WOT usually includes the last 2 colunms or so depending on how your scaling is setup and how your car is reading.
When you find your max ign, back it off a degree or 2. Normally for setups like yours, you shouldn't exceed about 28-30 degrees max wot ign.. that should do you fine.
You can tune ign on the street, but unless you can read plugs properly it tends to be a headache.
If you'd like to post your map i can take a look at it or share your bin. Also.. keep in mind, you want your maps as smooth as possible, no crossing lines, or anything like that. Take your time to make your map smooth.. the car then, will run smooth too. Make sure to take advantage of the advanced tables as well, those play a big role in power.
I also tend to not really fool with the low cam ign, unless it is needed. Most of the time the low cam ign maps are pretty good. I tend to use the p30 ign maps as a base anyway.
On the dyno, after you have street tuned the car, you'll want to see if small adjustments make a difference. I usually tune high cam ign maps AFTER vtec engagement. Try adding 2 degrees and see if it makes a difference, if not Take 2 degrees away from the initinal starting mark.
You'll want to change where you are in the run, WOT usually includes the last 2 colunms or so depending on how your scaling is setup and how your car is reading.
When you find your max ign, back it off a degree or 2. Normally for setups like yours, you shouldn't exceed about 28-30 degrees max wot ign.. that should do you fine.
You can tune ign on the street, but unless you can read plugs properly it tends to be a headache.
If you'd like to post your map i can take a look at it or share your bin. Also.. keep in mind, you want your maps as smooth as possible, no crossing lines, or anything like that. Take your time to make your map smooth.. the car then, will run smooth too. Make sure to take advantage of the advanced tables as well, those play a big role in power.
07-07-2011, 05:44 AM
#11
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Re: Tune Ignition Maps
As the car gets hotter, based upon stock roms, the program will retard timing and take away fuel.. depending on how the car is setup this can hinder the performance.. you need to tune out your advanced tables to have a consistance tune across the board.
07-07-2011, 06:29 AM
#13
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Setting the correct ECT and IAT settings for Fuel and ign compensating are important on any program..
As the car gets hotter, based upon stock roms, the program will retard timing and take away fuel.. depending on how the car is setup this can hinder the performance.. you need to tune out your advanced tables to have a consistance tune across the board.
As the car gets hotter, based upon stock roms, the program will retard timing and take away fuel.. depending on how the car is setup this can hinder the performance.. you need to tune out your advanced tables to have a consistance tune across the board.
07-08-2011, 05:27 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Yes OEM GSR Head. I believe with RS Machine USDM ITR Pistons compression is 10.8:1. The head and block did get decked, so compression shouldn't be much higher. Doing a compression check I get ~235psi.
07-08-2011, 05:59 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
This is a idea how there suppose to look : (Please note this map is nowhere near complete and just to give a idea about smoothing the map out, the low cam is the best example)
07-09-2011, 07:18 AM
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07-10-2011, 11:58 PM
#22
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Damn very nice # and simmilar setup to mines cept mines a b18c1 with usdm itr 81mm slugs. stock cams, stock head. i putt down 166 whp and 120 tq with very high IAT with a stock gsr IM and TB and a plm v2 header with no cat to a 2.5" exhaust with rdx 410 cc injectors. On a cold night its putting out 170 whp. Hmn id post my timing map butt i have no idea how to do it. Hoping to get closer to 200whp with a PNP b16 head that has been milled a few times. Blox Bs or Cs and a itr IM with a 70MM TB.
figured it out
fuel map. i am still tunning the low end for the gas millage so its a lill fluffy at the bottom.
and ignition map.
Also OP. AT light cruising loads. What are your AFR's? Just curious. Flame suit on. I have my cruising AFRs that are at light loads around 18-20 with out breaking up and get richer with load. Gas millage so far is awesome.
figured it out
fuel map. i am still tunning the low end for the gas millage so its a lill fluffy at the bottom.
and ignition map.
Also OP. AT light cruising loads. What are your AFR's? Just curious. Flame suit on. I have my cruising AFRs that are at light loads around 18-20 with out breaking up and get richer with load. Gas millage so far is awesome.
Last edited by igorka_91; 07-11-2011 at 12:30 AM.
07-11-2011, 11:03 PM
#23
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Re: Tune Ignition Maps
WOW you're really running that lean with the RDX injectors? I could only manage 16:1 but I was using some old school DSM 450's.
07-12-2011, 03:19 AM
#24
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
So my question is after looking at several Honda OEM Bins, why does Honda make the timing/fuel tables so jagged?
I just smoothed out the maps for my B20 in my DD and noticed a much better running car overall, haven't dynoed or anything but seat of the pants even feels better.
I just smoothed out the maps for my B20 in my DD and noticed a much better running car overall, haven't dynoed or anything but seat of the pants even feels better.
07-12-2011, 12:48 PM
#25
Re: Tune Ignition Maps
Yes and the RDX 410s have a really good spray pattern so that may contribute to me being able to run that lean. I am sure if you change to the rdx 410s you would be able to run it leaner. I will try next week a tad leaner butt my afr gauge reads to only 21...sssooo i am out of luck. Also OP. AT light cruising loads. What are your AFR's? Just curious.