Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
06-11-2015, 07:50 AM
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Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
Hey everyone,
I would like to request various tranmission experts to help me if i can.
My car is a street drag car, and daily. But i drive only 10-25 miles daily.
Its a LS Vtec. With a S9B LSd tranmission.
Most important thing to keep in mind is that transmission are almost impossible to find in my country thus i want to keep my s9b just make it better.
Right, the target is to be as good or better than a ITR trans running a 4.9
My present gear ratios are as following:
1 - 3.230
2 - 1.900
3- 1.360
4 - 1.034
5 - 0.787
FInal drive 4.266
Tire size 190/50/15
Redline 7200 daily 8000 if i want to push it
The owner before me changed out for the longer 5th gear for fuel eco he used to drive alot everyday. normally s9b have 0.848 as 5th gear
I have a budget of a 1000$ and no more to get this close to my target.
I was thinking to start with the 1st gear from mfactory as traction on our street sucks. would it help or Final drive is the better choice?
Regards
I would like to request various tranmission experts to help me if i can.
My car is a street drag car, and daily. But i drive only 10-25 miles daily.
Its a LS Vtec. With a S9B LSd tranmission.
Most important thing to keep in mind is that transmission are almost impossible to find in my country thus i want to keep my s9b just make it better.
Right, the target is to be as good or better than a ITR trans running a 4.9
My present gear ratios are as following:
1 - 3.230
2 - 1.900
3- 1.360
4 - 1.034
5 - 0.787
FInal drive 4.266
Tire size 190/50/15
Redline 7200 daily 8000 if i want to push it
The owner before me changed out for the longer 5th gear for fuel eco he used to drive alot everyday. normally s9b have 0.848 as 5th gear
I have a budget of a 1000$ and no more to get this close to my target.
I was thinking to start with the 1st gear from mfactory as traction on our street sucks. would it help or Final drive is the better choice?
Regards
06-13-2015, 03:40 PM
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Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
I put all the figures in but it wouldn't let me copy and paste the graph, so you're gonna have to do it yourself. Go to: Honda Transmission Calculator by ZealAutowerks and put in all your values on one side. Then put S80 (ITR) ratios in on the other side using the "Autofill Ratios" drop down bar. You can play with tire size, redline and final drive to see how the mph limit in each gear would compare. But offhand, I can tell you no OEM tranny will be shorter(as quick overall) as an oem ITR w/4.9 (the S4C '99-'00 B16 Trans has identical 1-3 ratios with slightly shorter 4th and 5th than the S80, but I wouldn't recommend them in a car that sees the highway.)
06-14-2015, 11:15 PM
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Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
Hey guys
did some reading.
Here is the setup i am thinking.
1 - 3.230
2 - 1.900
3 - 1.625
4 - 1.296
5 - 1
FD - 4.266
I read up on bense build transmission page - alot of good info thanks Bense.
My understanding of the my choice, correct me if am wrong
Disadvantages - will be very very bad on the street, 2nd is too short
Advantage - 3-4-5 is perfect the Estimated speed is perfect for me to cross the line
should get better traction at 1-2 as the fd wont multiply the torque too much
Correct me please
Regards
did some reading.
Here is the setup i am thinking.
1 - 3.230
2 - 1.900
3 - 1.625
4 - 1.296
5 - 1
FD - 4.266
I read up on bense build transmission page - alot of good info thanks Bense.
My understanding of the my choice, correct me if am wrong
Disadvantages - will be very very bad on the street, 2nd is too short
Advantage - 3-4-5 is perfect the Estimated speed is perfect for me to cross the line
should get better traction at 1-2 as the fd wont multiply the torque too much
Correct me please
Regards
06-15-2015, 09:42 AM
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Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
Yeah Bense is the man to talk too when it comes to tranny ratios.
I don't know if this is an ideal setup for you though for a few reasons. How much power is your LSV making and what car do you have? I ask so we can get a rough idea of your trap speeds with a good driver. Also, will you be running a larger diameter slick at the track? Because the 195/50-15's will limit your mph and traction. Using 195s, 8000 redline and your gearing looks like:
1 - 3.230 (39.19mph)
2 - 1.900 (66.62mph)
3 - 1.625 (77.9mph)
4 - 1.296 (97.67mph)
5 - 1 (126.58mph)
Final - 4.266
First off, the only 11mph gap between 2nd and 3rd is too quick and kind of a waste. If you switched to the 2.105 B16/ITR 2nd, it would drop 2nd gear mph to 60.13 but give you a more even spread.
Second, I think your limited 8000rpm redline, small tires and very close 3-4-5 really makes this tranny too short for you. If you're running anything better than high 13-low 14 second passes, you'll be over 100mph meaning you would have to shift into 5th, which ideally you don't want to do at the track.
I think it would be better using your original 1-5 setup (but different Final, using same parameters):
1 - 3.230 (34.94mph)
2 - 1.900 (59.4mph)
3 - 1.360 (82.98mph)
4 - 1.034 (109.14mph)
5 - 0.787 (143.4mph)
Final - 4.785
With a 4.785 S80 Final (not 4.9) would be ideal for the street/strip. You can redline a little higher (8300-8400) in 4th to get 113-115mph across the line if need be.
I don't know if this is an ideal setup for you though for a few reasons. How much power is your LSV making and what car do you have? I ask so we can get a rough idea of your trap speeds with a good driver. Also, will you be running a larger diameter slick at the track? Because the 195/50-15's will limit your mph and traction. Using 195s, 8000 redline and your gearing looks like:
1 - 3.230 (39.19mph)
2 - 1.900 (66.62mph)
3 - 1.625 (77.9mph)
4 - 1.296 (97.67mph)
5 - 1 (126.58mph)
Final - 4.266
First off, the only 11mph gap between 2nd and 3rd is too quick and kind of a waste. If you switched to the 2.105 B16/ITR 2nd, it would drop 2nd gear mph to 60.13 but give you a more even spread.
Second, I think your limited 8000rpm redline, small tires and very close 3-4-5 really makes this tranny too short for you. If you're running anything better than high 13-low 14 second passes, you'll be over 100mph meaning you would have to shift into 5th, which ideally you don't want to do at the track.
I think it would be better using your original 1-5 setup (but different Final, using same parameters):
1 - 3.230 (34.94mph)
2 - 1.900 (59.4mph)
3 - 1.360 (82.98mph)
4 - 1.034 (109.14mph)
5 - 0.787 (143.4mph)
Final - 4.785
With a 4.785 S80 Final (not 4.9) would be ideal for the street/strip. You can redline a little higher (8300-8400) in 4th to get 113-115mph across the line if need be.
06-15-2015, 10:12 AM
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Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
Yeah Bense is the man to talk too when it comes to tranny ratios.
I don't know if this is an ideal setup for you though for a few reasons. How much power is your LSV making and what car do you have? I ask so we can get a rough idea of your trap speeds with a good driver. Also, will you be running a larger diameter slick at the track? Because the 195/50-15's will limit your mph and traction. Using 195s, 8000 redline and your gearing looks like:
1 - 3.230 (39.19mph)
2 - 1.900 (66.62mph)
3 - 1.625 (77.9mph)
4 - 1.296 (97.67mph)
5 - 1 (126.58mph)
Final - 4.266
First off, the only 11mph gap between 2nd and 3rd is too quick and kind of a waste. If you switched to the 2.105 B16/ITR 2nd, it would drop 2nd gear mph to 60.13 but give you a more even spread.
Second, I think your limited 8000rpm redline, small tires and very close 3-4-5 really makes this tranny too short for you. If you're running anything better than high 13-low 14 second passes, you'll be over 100mph meaning you would have to shift into 5th, which ideally you don't want to do at the track.
I think it would be better using your original 1-5 setup (but different Final, using same parameters):
1 - 3.230 (34.94mph)
2 - 1.900 (59.4mph)
3 - 1.360 (82.98mph)
4 - 1.034 (109.14mph)
5 - 0.787 (143.4mph)
Final - 4.785
With a 4.785 S80 Final (not 4.9) would be ideal for the street/strip. You can redline a little higher (8300-8400) in 4th to get 113-115mph across the line if need be.
I don't know if this is an ideal setup for you though for a few reasons. How much power is your LSV making and what car do you have? I ask so we can get a rough idea of your trap speeds with a good driver. Also, will you be running a larger diameter slick at the track? Because the 195/50-15's will limit your mph and traction. Using 195s, 8000 redline and your gearing looks like:
1 - 3.230 (39.19mph)
2 - 1.900 (66.62mph)
3 - 1.625 (77.9mph)
4 - 1.296 (97.67mph)
5 - 1 (126.58mph)
Final - 4.266
First off, the only 11mph gap between 2nd and 3rd is too quick and kind of a waste. If you switched to the 2.105 B16/ITR 2nd, it would drop 2nd gear mph to 60.13 but give you a more even spread.
Second, I think your limited 8000rpm redline, small tires and very close 3-4-5 really makes this tranny too short for you. If you're running anything better than high 13-low 14 second passes, you'll be over 100mph meaning you would have to shift into 5th, which ideally you don't want to do at the track.
I think it would be better using your original 1-5 setup (but different Final, using same parameters):
1 - 3.230 (34.94mph)
2 - 1.900 (59.4mph)
3 - 1.360 (82.98mph)
4 - 1.034 (109.14mph)
5 - 0.787 (143.4mph)
Final - 4.785
With a 4.785 S80 Final (not 4.9) would be ideal for the street/strip. You can redline a little higher (8300-8400) in 4th to get 113-115mph across the line if need be.
thanks for the time.
I will try to answer everything below:
1. Yes 2-3 is too short, worries me too. 2.1 is a option
2. we dont have a track in our country, so its going to be on the street. the biggest i would run is 205/45/15 semi slick
3. My car is a 1987 civic hatch
4. i dont want the final drive idea as traction on our street is a major concern, i want to slow the tires down on 1-2nd gears so that i can get traction in return. thus i like my long final drive and want to stick with it.
5. i agree going 5th gear is not ideal but i prefer to have a powerful 5th than a sluggish one.
I am aiming at a trap speed of 95-110 mph
Regards
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06-15-2015, 11:51 AM
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Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
Hey, thanks for the time. You're welcome, no problem
I will try to answer everything below:
1. Yes 2-3 is too short, worries me too. 2.1 is a option If you do decide to use your proposed setup, def get the 2.1
2. we dont have a track in our country, so its going to be on the street. the biggest i would run is 205/45/15 semi slick That sucks, a track is much stickier. If you're limited by tire size, just get the stickiest compound available. If you're serious about racing and don't mind spending money to go through tires more often maybe get something like vht compound to hook better
3. My car is a 1987 civic hatch This is a nice light chassis and will really gain mph from the 1/8-1/4mile part of the race. Let's say your hatch weighs 2000lbs with you in it, in race trim. I'd guesstimate if you're making 160-170whp you will about meet your trap speeds, 175-185whp you might just meet but probably exceed the traps your are thinking by a couple mph. If you're making 200+whp you will definitely exceed 110mph and probably even 115mph, as this is mid-12sec territory
4. i dont want the final drive idea as traction on our street is a major concern, i want to slow the tires down on 1-2nd gears so that i can get traction in return. thus i like my long final drive and want to stick with it. Trust me on this, the shorter final and longer, more even 1st-5th feels better to drive than a long final with sped up 3rd-5th. The only cars that really NEED long final drive and aftermarket longer 1st gears are the turbo guys who are spinning 26in slicks regardless and fully built all motor k24 guys. I understand you will be on the street using semi-slicks but, if you launch at the proper rpm and pedal the car right you can get enough traction to get moving and run some decent 60fts. Flooring it is not the way to go in a limited traction scenario, and keeping a longer final just to be able to step on the gas harder is kind've backwards thinking in your case. Remember that gears are a permanent fixture once installed while the gas pedal has constant adjustability to change the power/traction available. Do what you like, but I still recommend your original gearing with the 4.785 final. Besides a better overall setup, it will be less expensive and less work to change a final than play with 3-4-5 until you get it right.
5. i agree going 5th gear is not ideal but i prefer to have a powerful 5th than a sluggish one. I understand but as I said if this car sees any highway time, you want to make sure your 5th is capable of atleast 135-140mph. With your proposed setup it tops out at 126mph, which means you're gonna have to cruise around at 4000rpm just to do 60mph. It becomes annoying and sucks for gas mileage.
I am aiming at a trap speed of 95-110 mph Refer to #3
I will try to answer everything below:
1. Yes 2-3 is too short, worries me too. 2.1 is a option If you do decide to use your proposed setup, def get the 2.1
2. we dont have a track in our country, so its going to be on the street. the biggest i would run is 205/45/15 semi slick That sucks, a track is much stickier. If you're limited by tire size, just get the stickiest compound available. If you're serious about racing and don't mind spending money to go through tires more often maybe get something like vht compound to hook better
3. My car is a 1987 civic hatch This is a nice light chassis and will really gain mph from the 1/8-1/4mile part of the race. Let's say your hatch weighs 2000lbs with you in it, in race trim. I'd guesstimate if you're making 160-170whp you will about meet your trap speeds, 175-185whp you might just meet but probably exceed the traps your are thinking by a couple mph. If you're making 200+whp you will definitely exceed 110mph and probably even 115mph, as this is mid-12sec territory
4. i dont want the final drive idea as traction on our street is a major concern, i want to slow the tires down on 1-2nd gears so that i can get traction in return. thus i like my long final drive and want to stick with it. Trust me on this, the shorter final and longer, more even 1st-5th feels better to drive than a long final with sped up 3rd-5th. The only cars that really NEED long final drive and aftermarket longer 1st gears are the turbo guys who are spinning 26in slicks regardless and fully built all motor k24 guys. I understand you will be on the street using semi-slicks but, if you launch at the proper rpm and pedal the car right you can get enough traction to get moving and run some decent 60fts. Flooring it is not the way to go in a limited traction scenario, and keeping a longer final just to be able to step on the gas harder is kind've backwards thinking in your case. Remember that gears are a permanent fixture once installed while the gas pedal has constant adjustability to change the power/traction available. Do what you like, but I still recommend your original gearing with the 4.785 final. Besides a better overall setup, it will be less expensive and less work to change a final than play with 3-4-5 until you get it right.
5. i agree going 5th gear is not ideal but i prefer to have a powerful 5th than a sluggish one. I understand but as I said if this car sees any highway time, you want to make sure your 5th is capable of atleast 135-140mph. With your proposed setup it tops out at 126mph, which means you're gonna have to cruise around at 4000rpm just to do 60mph. It becomes annoying and sucks for gas mileage.
I am aiming at a trap speed of 95-110 mph Refer to #3
06-15-2015, 12:04 PM
#9
Re: Tranmission Guru's: Help S9B + Mfactory = ITR?
2-3 will be too short, I've run that exact setup (including the 4.26 FD).
If you want to run the close gear set, change 1/2 out for the B16/ITR 1/2, I also suggest the 4.0 FD.
The 2.105/1.6/1.2/1/4.0 setup is an extremely fun setup to drive on the street and road courses.
That said I don't recommend the semi-helical close gear set that is on closeout sale. There have been problems with them separating (they're a two piece design, the gear cone portion is separate from the gear tooth portion, they're held together by a spot weld which can break, causing the car to act like its in neutral when it is in-fact in gear). I highly recommend the straight cut close gear sets that are on closeout sale as well as the new dual synchro semi-helical close gear set.
If you want to run the close gear set, change 1/2 out for the B16/ITR 1/2, I also suggest the 4.0 FD.
The 2.105/1.6/1.2/1/4.0 setup is an extremely fun setup to drive on the street and road courses.
That said I don't recommend the semi-helical close gear set that is on closeout sale. There have been problems with them separating (they're a two piece design, the gear cone portion is separate from the gear tooth portion, they're held together by a spot weld which can break, causing the car to act like its in neutral when it is in-fact in gear). I highly recommend the straight cut close gear sets that are on closeout sale as well as the new dual synchro semi-helical close gear set.
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