igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Hey ht
So im in the process of getting some pro2s or 3s for my allmotor build. The shop i talked to about getiing the cams said that my supertech springs will not work with the pro2s or 3s. I need some help before its to late. I want to build this thing right the first time. Engine will no be reved to more then 8.5k rpm.
thanks

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

I just scaned trough the allmotor dyno tread. And from the looks of it. Pro series cams=pro series valve springs. Am i correct. The seat presure on my supertech dual VS wont be enough for big cams as the pro2 and 3 are.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

just read this.
Street car b20-vtec 93 pump gas
Engine specs:
Kingmotorsports built bottom end
B20z block
13.1:1 compression 93 octane
Bdl block guard
Mahle 3cc 84.5mm pistons
Stock rods bushed small ends with ARP bolts
Kingmotorsports balanced rotating assembly including flywheel and clutch
Type R head street ported by PURE TUNING
stock Type R valves
supertech springs
Crower cro-moly retainers
Skunk2 Pro 2's degreed in at 55* opening on the exhaust@.040 valve lift
Skunk2 Cam gears
Kingmotorsports mailbox2 custom intake manifold
Type R throttle body bored to 64.5mm
RC 310's
SMSP B20 vtec 1 piece header
Hondata S200
Hondata intake gasket

263 WHP 173WTQ

Gonna wait for some one to chime in.

m_shake

Only thing I can think of is to compare seat pressure, open pressure and coil bind between the two, more then likely gonna have to contact supertech and skunk2 for specs.

92TypeR

I run the Supertech H100DR Spring/Retainer kit on my 2.0L with Pro-3's.

I inspect retainers every 5,000 miles, and so far so good. Seat pressure on the H100DR is ~80lbs, which is more than enough for Pro-3's.

If I ever need to replace the valvetrain, I'll end up buying Skunk2 Pro-series springs/retainers to match, only because if a component fails Skunk2 would likely replace the entire package.

m_shake

This is from team integra, though the skunk2 springs, idk if they are the tuners or pro series that they show.

STOCK 1997-1999 ITR

INTAKE lift - 11.5 mm, duration 240 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @1mm


STOCK CTR and 2000-2001 ITR

INTAKE lift - 11.5 mm, duration 243 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @1mm


Buddy Club Spec 3 Plus

INTAKE lift - 11.2 mm, duration 250 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.5mm, duration 245 @1mm


Now if we look at the link above, we can see that the valve springs on the intake and exhaust side are the same on a ITR. So now we take a look at the specs for the Buddy Club Spec 3+ cams and notice that the max intake and exhaust lifts don't exceed the max intake lift of a ITR at 11.5mm. So a valvespring upgrade is not required.


Now lets do the same for a more agressive cam.


Toda Spec C's

INTAKE lift - 12.5 mm, duration 255 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 12.5mm, duration 255 @1mm

We can already clearly see that the lift of the Toda C's at 12.5mm greatly exceeds the stock lift specs of the ITR's intake lift of 11.5mm so a aftermarket valvespring is required.

It's no coincidence that Toda makes valve springs that have a max lift of 12.5mm therefore saftly allowing you to run their cams without valve float.

Now you may think the solution is that you run the highest available max lift that you can find. The simple answer is no. You want to run the least amount of spring pressure that will still saftly get you to the max lift you require. If you do decide to run aggresive springs like 14.5mm of max lift when you only need 12.2mm of max lift, your going to experience accelerated valve retainer, valve seat, rocker and cam lobe wear, so this is your warning.

Also it's a safe bet to have about 0.5mm-0.6mm extra of max lift just in case you mis-shift or over rev your engine. So for example if your running cams that require 12mm max lift it doesn't hurt to run valve springs with a max lift of 12.5mm to be on the safe side.


A list of common valve spring specs for different manufactures. This is for B18C1, B18C5 & B16A Heads.

Acura USDM/JDM GSR INTAKE SIDE ONLY Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 50lbs
Max Lift: 11.5mm
Coil Bind: 11.7mm
Pressure @ 11.5mm/.453" lift: 150lbs

Acura USDM 98-01/JDM 96-01 ITR Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 50lbs
Max Lift: 11.5mm
Coil Bind: 11.7mm
Pressure @ 11.5mm/.453" lift: 150lbs

Toda Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Variable
Seat Pressure: ???
Max Lift: 12.5mm
Coil Bind: 12.9mm
Pressure @ 12.5mm/.492" lift: 190lbs

Omni-Power Valve Spring - Old Specs
Seat pressure 55 lb’s
Coil bind 14 mm
Pressure @ 12.7mm/.500 lift 180 approx. +-1%
Max lift 13.2 mm

Omni-Power Valve Springs - New Specs
Seat pressure 65 lb’s
Coil bind 14.8 mm
Pressure @ 12.7mm/.500 lift 200 approx. +-1%
Max lift 14.5 mm

Supertech B-Series Valve Springs PN SPR-H1002D-KIT
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: ???
Max Lift: 12.5mm
Coil Bind 19.5mm
Pressure @ 12mm/.472" lift: 190lbs

Supertech B-Series Valve Springs PN SPR-H100DR-KIT
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: ???
Max Lift: 14mm
Coil Bind ???
Pressure @ 14mm/.551" lift: 266lbs

Jun Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 51lbs
Max Lift: 12mm
Coil Bind: 12.2mm
Pressure @ 12mm/.472" lift: 195lbs

Web Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 50lbs
Max Lift 12.5mm
Coil Bind: 12.7mm
Pressure @ 12.5mm/.492" lift: 198lbs

Portflow Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 70lbs
Max Lift 12.5mm
Coil Bind: 12.7mm
Pressure @ 12.5mm/.492" lift: 204lbs

Skunk 2 Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 72lbs
Max Lift: 12.7mm
Coil Bind: 18mm
Pressure @ 12.7mm/.500" lift: ???

Ferrea Valve Springs - Dual Spring Hi Pressure Setup PN S10027
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 100lbs
Max Lift: 13.5mm
Coil Bind: 20mm
Pressure @ 13.5mm/.531" lift: ???
***Requires Ferrea retainers and valve springs seat***

Ferrea Valve Springs - Single Spring Setup PN S10028
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 55lbs
Max Lift: 13.5mm
Coil Bind: 20mm
Pressure @ 13.5mm/.531" lift: ???
***Requires Ferrea retainers and valve springs seat***

Manley Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: ???
Max Lift: 13.5mm
Coil Bind: 19.4mm
Pressure @ 13.5mm/.531" lift: ???

Rocket Motorsports Gen 1 Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 95lbs
Max Lift: 13mm
Coil Bind: ???
Pressure @ 12mm/.472" lift: 265lbs

Rocket Motorsports Gen 2 Valve Springs
Variable or Linear: Linear
Seat Pressure: 55lbs
Max Lift: 14mm
Coil Bind: ???
Pressure @ 12mm/.472" lift: 180lbs

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

The thing is i have no idea which part number i have for the supertech valve springs. I bought them with my pnp b16 head with ctr cams. Ill be running either pro2s or 3s on a 2.0L aswell....84.5x89 at 13+cr on e85. I need to know if these are trash and order some valve springs that will be good with pro2s or 3s. As for retainers. I have a set of new k series retainers. the cromv ones..how ever u call them. part number 14765-PRB-A00
Thanks guys.

BearsEK-KMSU

I built this engine myself. It is my brothers car. I had Supertech 100dr's in it and in my 2.0L with Pro 2's and 3's revving to 10K for years. Setup works fine but is a little bit stiffer than the Pro-series springs. The ST springs tend to get a little softer over time vs the Skunk's. After awhile the spring pressures seem about the same.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Nice on you to chime in. If they will work with pro2s. I will leave them in the head since its already assembled and ready to be mated to the block and save time and money . It sucks not knowing what ST part number they are. I am not even gonna rev close to what youre posting. 8.5k max. I want this setup to last as long as posible with a good tune.
Thanks

Oh and props for a nice build on stock rods. Hopefully my build will break over 240whp and get me into the 12s. Butt ill be happy with what ever it makes with a good tune. Can you chime in if this was on stock sleves. Also how many miles on this setup.
Thanks again.

Just for the hell of it. Heres my build/plan. This was suppose to be a budget build that turned into this lol.


Block:
-b20b or b20z2 block-have both..if the b20z2 one doesnt sell...will be used for this build
-CP 84.5mm 12.5:1CR with eagle rods and ls crank- have
ARP head studs part number 208-4306 from bluer- need to buy
OEM rod bearings and ACL maain and trust bearings- need to buy
OEM water pump- need to buy
OEM oil pump-need to buy
oem headgasket or cometic 84.5mm one- need to buy
Blackworks vtec kit- need to buy
Breather kit-need to make one or buy one.

Head:
jdm b16 head...PNP by alaniz-have
new supertech valve stem seals-instaled
supertech dual valve springs????????????????-have
k20 retainers- have
supertech flat face vales..might run itr intake valves...still deciding-have
VictorX IM-being shiped from bluer..thanks for the great hookup
70mm Trotle body- have
skunk2 pro2's-????$$$$-need to buy
big tube hytech replica egay header-????$$$$ need to buy..curently have the small tubes
NGK V-power R5671A-8 plugs for 12.0:1+ compression-?????$$$$$-need to buy
id1000cc injectors-????$$$$-need to buy
aem fuel rail-have
walbro 255lph-need to buy


Engine management:
AEM EMS-have
LC1 wieband-have

Transmision:
96 GSR trans-buying this week
viscous lsd-have


Personal Goal:12s in a gutted dc2 chasi, 240+/-whp and what ever torque it yields me- will have

BearsEK-KMSU

I never said any ST spring will work. If they are not 100 dr's it will blow up. You need to check coil bind or don't bother building the engine....

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Ok so i have to chek for coil bind and seat presure. Ima hit up a shop today and have them test them.
Anyting else i shuld have them test the spring for..?
Thanks

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Ite so i called up a shop here in sac that specializes in heads. He said to bring in the head assembled with the lift of the cams that i will be running. He said it will take about an hour and 85$......Expencive to test one spring butt oh weel. If they wont work. Slap them into my b18c1 once its out. So once i get the test done. Where do i chek if they will work..?
Thanks

krazy one

i was thinking the same question the OP was asking. it looks like everyone who is using Supertech valve springs with skunk2 pro2 or 3' use the H100DR. can anyone else chime in who used the H1002d with pro2s? how is it holding up and does the folks who use either valve train daily their cars?

krazy one

bump this
also, BearsEK-KMSU why did you choose the chrome-moly retainers over the titanium?

Combustion Contraption

Since you already have the valvetrain, if they springs are a little off, and you don't want to spend the money for all new valvetrain, ask the shop for a quote on shimming the springs to get the spring pressure up a bit, and then ensuring there's still adequate clearance from max lift to coil bind. I won't run anything where the distance from max life to coil bind is less than .060". , .050" in a max-effort engine.

m_shake

Been covered a million times, chromoly will last much longer then titanium retainers, but they do weigh more(talking a few grams here). For a street application, it's really the best long term choice.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Will be getting back with results withing this week hopefully. Crosing my fingers that they are the right ones. Can you explain a lil more in detail about the max lift to coil bind thing. New stuff to me that i would like to know/learn about.
Thanks

BearsEK-KMSU

Pretty sure that those springs won't need to be shimmed the problem with them from what I remember is coil bind. But it has been awhile.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

supertech SPR-H1002D:
Outer Spring - O.D.: 29.05mm I.D.: 21.85mm
Inner Spring Spring - O.D.: 20.5mm I.D.: 15.5mm
Pressure (lbs@mm) - Seat: 70 @ 33.5 Open: 190 @ 12
Max Lift: 14mm
Coil Bind: 19.5mm
Rate lbs/mm: 10.mm

supertech:SPR-H1002DR:
Spring Specifications: 85 lbs Seat Pressure -- 15.00mm Max Net Lift -- 18.50mm Coil Bind -- 12.90 lbs/mm Rate

some info i found.

f20b jones

I have seen several cars running super tech springs on pro 2 cams with no problem. I personaly like to run whats made for the cams . I would not advise you to run them with the pro 3 but they will be fine with the pro 2.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

I will still get one of the springs cheked out. Better be safe then sorry.

dellas

Can any engine builder or anyone with experience add to this.

Want to know if Supertech 1002D springs is enough to handle Pro2 cams spinning to 9000 RPM in a stock valve head?

I'm curious to know if the higher spring rates of the 100DR springs will cause significant valve train wear with Pro2 or Pro3 cams.

Uncle Dave

9200rpm 6 trackdays over 10,000klms on the road Pro2's with the Supertech SPR-H1002D springs with Supertech Alloy retainers and there 10 degree locks to suit we had 70lbs seat pressure this engine still runs perfectly after 18months.If using Pro3 I would use the Pro Series valve springs and retainers.

Rocket

There's a relationship between pressure and lift capability. (hint:it's not a good relationship) Supertech is good about observing that. It's standard spring design knowledge among true spring designers.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

most of the info on team integra is old as hell. probably from 2004 or so

alot of the stuff have been upgraded.
check on skunk2 webpage to make sure you got up to date info.