xQB21x

b20 block
here is my setup:
stock b20 crank
carrillo rods
wiseco pistons CR 12:1
slightly milled GSR head
skunk2 hi-comp valves
skunk2 pro series valve springs
skunk2 titanium retainers
skunk2 pro3 cams
DIY ITBs about 43-45mm
Toda racing exhaust manifold
buddy club racing spec2 catback
tuned with hondata s300

and heres my dynosheet:


right now i'm looking for the way to increase the power and torque for the next season. so i wonder if smsp header will add someting? or any other headers?

any useful links are welocme

bambam

That's a pretty sick powerband right there. A Tri-Y style header will definitely move your peak HP to the right on that graph, but most likely with some sacrifice in the mid. Is this a street/drag/autoX motor? You should also try a plenum manifold for comparison. You may be surprised....victorX/performerX?

Stinkycheezmonky

An SMSP header will be a bump up in power, though I can't say how much. Look over the "Great Header Dyno Test" from a few years ago, that had a Toda/SMS comparison dyno to give you an idea.

BTW, at 3600rpm you're making as much power as I do at my peak

b20beast978

nice numbers!

Casey

iTrader: (5)

that is a sick *** tq and hp curve. i bet youd pick up some power if you moved to a true 2.5" exhaust

Stinkycheezmonky

You know, Dave Stadulis brought something interesting to my attention: I was gonna get a 2.5" exhaust from him, and had a 2.38" Fujitsubo exhaust. He suggested not bothering, because the additional weight of the 2.5" would counter whatever benefits the larger diameter would make. The BC Spec 2 is a really damn light exhaust, so it might be the same situation. That engine definitely has more potential than my mostly-stock B20 though, so I'm not sure

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You know, Dave Stadulis brought something interesting to my attention: I was gonna get a 2.5" exhaust from him, and had a 2.38" Fujitsubo exhaust. He suggested not bothering, because the additional weight of the 2.5" would counter whatever benefits the larger diameter would make. The BC Spec 2 is a really damn light exhaust, so it might be the same situation. That engine definitely has more potential than my mostly-stock B20 though, so I'm not sure </TD></TR></TABLE>

That was due to your numbers. On the above set up I already recommended a 2-1/2" exhaust to him. There's 12% more internal area versus a JDM 60mm exhaust.

Stinkycheezmonky

Yeah, I wondered about that... Thanks for the clarification though

spartiatis

The first thing i would consider changing is the DIY itbs! 45mm are really restrictive for such displacement-compression-cams

xQB21x

thank a lot for the comments.

as regards the purposes this car was built for - i think its a street/autoX project, i have never been a big fan of drag.

swapping my DIY itsb is something I ve been thinking of. one thing that makes me happy about my itbs is that although it is DIY it work great. what would you recommend to swap them for? TWM?

i'm also thinking about buying a built head - ported and polishd and stuff like that.

and the exhaust is also may be a subject to change.

i still have some time to think over everything.

xQB21x

by the way checked the abovementioned header test and found the dynosheet comparing toda and smsp header. seems like there is no use to change toda for smsp BUT they tested these headers on B18C and as far as i know SMSP makes a special header for B20Vtec which a think should work better than Toda with B20. Any ideas?

Stinkycheezmonky

Huh, that's weird. The dyno I remember was a much bigger difference between the two. Either way, I'd guess you would benefit from larger piping.

bambam

Who's dyno graph is that?

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xQB21x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

by the way checked the abovementioned header test and found the dynosheet comparing toda and smsp header. seems like there is no use to change toda for smsp BUT they tested these headers on B18C and as far as i know SMSP makes a special header for B20Vtec which a think should work better than Toda with B20. Any ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was one of the first header tests done for Honda Tech. It was in Dec of 2001 or 2002, I can't remember. The stock car put down 177 and then 180 with my 2-1/2" exhaust. The car also put down 187 with a USDM comp tech 4-2-1 header with a 2" collector and 1-1/2" x 1-5/8" stepped primaries (smaller BTW than the DC usdm 4-2-1 which uses all 1-5/8" primaries). The Hytech modified Mugen header (made the Mugen 4-1 into a long tube 4-2-1) also put down 187. The Toda and my B18C5 header each put down 190. This test was also done on a Mustang dyno and I've never seen a stock ITR put down 177 on a Mustang dyno. Also no tuning was done on these.

It's a shame at how many people probably purchased comp tech's usdm 4-2-1 header from those header test results where they should have bought the DC usdm 4-2-1.

Bottom Line: There were a few headers in that test that didn't show their full potential and there were some that got lucky. But if you want to determine your next header purchase for a built 2.0L engine based on a 5-6 year old non tuned header test on a stock 1.8L engine you may be disappointed.

Just FYI, we build 16 different designs of headers for the B series engines.

PS: As someone already stated you may need bigger ITBs too.

xQB21x

yeah i konw this. i've checked your website and found B20VTEC Multi Piece 4-2-1 100% Stainless Steel header which I think suits my setup best of all I've seen yet. Maybe you have something I don't know about.

So can you show me any header test dyno which will reflect the difference between your header and for example toda header which I use now on a setup similar to mine?

2.0 and up

is that the stock bore on the block? im assuming its not because the TQ looks very good

xQB21x

the bore is 84.5 mm

A Blue Lude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This test was also done on a Mustang dyno and I've never seen a stock ITR put down 177 on a Mustang dyno. Also no tuning was done on these.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, that's a surprisingly legible graph for a mustang dyno.

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xQB21x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So can you show me any header test dyno which will reflect the difference between your header and for example toda header which I use now on a setup similar to mine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think I have one comparing my B20VTEC header to a Toda on a B20. Here's one coparing my B19 to my B20 though.

splitime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xQB21x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This might be before more recent header designs. I went from a Toda to the SMSP production B series header... and needed bigger injectors and fuel everywhere (no dyno #s, just lots more fuel needed... and my butt dyno said good things). The Toda was a great header...but the SMSP brought new life to my motor.

xQB21x

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2116420

guys look there i've created a new topic specially for discussing what i should do next with my setup.

HONDA RR

nice results

ghettoSi

Good numbers, now that I sold my turbo kit I might have to do one of these builds this winter.

xQB21x

which graph is B19 header and which is B20 header on your dynosheet?
which of your headers would you recommend for my setup?

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xQB21x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">which graph is B19 header and which is B20 header on your dynosheet?
which of your headers would you recommend for my setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Run107 = B20 header