agthad

Hey guys. I'm looking at doing a full valve job myself and would appreciate any advice from the community.

It's been a long time coming so I'll give you a little history. I've got a 2004 S2000 with the F22C. I've had it since new. It's got around 70k on it now. I'm pretty sure I've hit the money shift at least once (if not more) in the past. A couple of years ago I started getting all the misfire codes. I originally thought it was the MAP sensor issue. I did the MAP whack, cleaned the passages (which helped the idle), added the zip tie, even installed a new MAP sensor with the zip tie all to no avail. After that I started reading all the pages about mechanical over revs from a missed shift and the related cracked retainers, bent valves, etc.

Last year in an attempt to pass inspection I finally did a compression test. Cylinders 1, 2, and 4 were all around 240 psi. Cylinder 3, however, was only at 190 psi. It was also full of black deposits. I performed a valve adjustment at that time. Unfortunately I did not write down all the measurements. I do remember that just about everything was tight. Some were at no clearance. I tried looking to see if any of the retainers were cracked but did not understand as much at the time what to look for exactly. (I know most the cracked retainers have been on the F20's but I'm still suspect of it since everything was so tight.) After that all the codes cleared and have not returned. The car has ran much better as well. Since I'm still concerned about dropping a valve I haven't gone over 4k rpm in the last couple of years (which has sucked by the way).

So now I've decided to fix it for sure. First I'm planning on doing a leak down test just in case that tells me anything new. I figure if I'm going to pull it apart I might as well go ahead and replace everything. I'm planning on pulling the head and installing new valves (intake and exhaust), guides, seals, keepers, springs, retainers, and seats. I've read that it's hard to beat OEM for the valves. Any reason to go oversize? I've read that you can actually lose airflow in the VTEC engines with oversized valves. I was thinking of going with Supertech guides.

As far as springs I haven't decided. I definitely do want to go aftermarket. There's Supertech, Ferrea, Skunk2, Spoon, Brian Crower, ScienceofSpeed, InlinePro, and more I'm sure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. What about dual springs? What about titanium retainers?

What about gaskets? I assume I'll need a cylinder head gasket, an intake gasket, and an exhaust gasket. I read that Honda has a full kit but I haven't seen it anywhere. What about the Hondata heatshield gasket?

My other big question is about what to do with the head itself. I guess I need to send it out to a shop to check if it's warped and needs resurfacing. I've read that a basic three-angle valve job is the best bet. Any thoughts? I've also read that porting and polishing an S2000 head doesn't get you much. Should I send the whole thing off and get them to remove and install everything? Does anyone know any good shops in the Dallas area? I've found these shops online but don't know much about them: City Motor Supply in Dallas, ENDYN in Fort Worth, Ballade Sports in Garden Grove, Speed-O-Motive in West Covina, HP Engines in Norwood, Performance Porting in Loveland, Port Flow Design in Harbor City, and CC Cylinder Heads.

Should I get new head bolts? I know the service manual gives bolt diameters to check for stretch. I think the ARP kit is $150. Necessary?

I found a couple of good write ups that may be useful to others as well. One from modified and the other from Honda Tuning.

http://www.modified.com/projectcars/...000/index.html

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...ild/index.html


I'd appreciate any help you guys can offer. I know this is a lot of info and a lot of questions but I've been mulling this over for a while. I know there's lots of posts on this topic (because I've read all I can find) but I haven't seen any that discuss everything done to fix it. I've got the service manual and would rather buy any tools needed over paying someone else to do it. I just want to know what I need before hand. I'd like to have all parts ready to go before I rip it apart. Thanks again.

m_shake

5min on google netted me this http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...ry5=GASKET+KIT

m_shake

OEM sized valves are more then fine.
OEM valves will work fine or you can use supertechs, I have and had no problems at all.
For springs you could run the OEM F20C dual springs, good enough for 9k and its oem
I have used and would use Endyn again, i'd also recommend tom @ portflow, and I think steve @ CC is outta the head game into the family man game(not sure if rlz does f20/22c heads)

agthad

Thats good to know about the F20C dual springs. Good info on the shops too. ENDYN is not too far away so I may give them a shot. I should've just googled the gasket kit. I was trying to find it in the parts diagrams. Thanks.

m_shake

No prob dude

agthad

Does anyone know what all the Honda gasket kit includes?

m_shake

Headgasket, vc gasket set, intake and exahust mani gaskets, valve stem seals and usually some other random o-rings and stuff

jdmcivic2fast

are you looking for just a basic 3 angle valve job or are you looking for a performance oreinted valve job? theres a slight difference between the two.

vinuneuro

Even the stock valveseat is a pretty sophisticated in the S2000. Make sure someone reputable like RLZ or Portflow does it.

agthad

I was thinking of just going with a basic 3-angle job. I spoke with with Larry at ENDYN in FW today. It sounds like they really know what they're doing. He said they ship about one S2000 head each day and that they've done a lot of development work with Honda racing. He said they do a custom radius (5-angle?) job. He also said that while it is true that the 2.0L head doesn't see much of a gain from a port and polish, the 2.2L does so I may look into that as well.

jdmcivic2fast

You cant go wrong with Larry, he's got years of r&d to back it up.

Radius is just what it says, theres no angle in radius, only angle on the radius valve job would be the contacting seat, but sometimes it's also not a angle that they use for the contacting seat, and dont bother to go in detail with it because he will not let these kind of info out to the public.

agthad

Thanks for the vouch jdmcivic2fast. I think once I get the time I'll be heading their way.

agthad

bump, thoughts from anyone else?

m_shake

Hey, where'd you find that pic of the valve seat angles?? I work at honda and everything shows a plain jane 3-angle job only.

Just found that the k20z3 shares the same valve job angles that u posted in the pic, just doesn't have that 82.5 cut

m_shake

Nevermind I found it. I looked at a older FSM (2000-2004) and it had the 4 angle job shown in it. The 2000-2009 FSM and hondas online manual thing showed a 3 angle.

agthad

I rechecked compression and did a leak down test yesterday. Compression came out the same as before and the leak down showed expected results.

Cylinder...........Compression (psi).........Leak Down (%)
....1.....................240..................... 10
....2.....................240..................... 20
....3.....................190..................... 45
....4.....................240..................... 5

The leak down in 3 sounded to be both in the intake and exhaust.

I've purchased all Supertech components for the rebuild (valves, guides, seals, springs, spring seats, retainers, keepers). I'm taking the head into Watt's Engine Shop next week. I can't wait to get this baby back to how she should be. I've got the Honda gasket kit, crush washers, fluids, spark plugs, K&N air filter, everything I could imagine I'll need to get back up and running. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll take plenty of pics.