Turbo EH2

Okay unfortunately enough i'm missing one stud from my arp headstud set... Is it safer to run all ARP's and one oem headbolt? Or just run all OEM head bolts?

If its better to run all arps but one (i will put the stock headbolt in the middle) do i torque all the ARP ones to 80 and the stock one to 65? Let me know....

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

What motor is it for? I have a set that was missing one that I have since used for spares. They are for the GSR though.

86si

dude using 9 studs and one oem bolt is like takin a **** and wiping half your ***. find another stud. or use all bolts

del_slow420

never re-use your stock head studs or used head studs arp's are designed to be reused sotck ones ar not they stretch... i would not dare be putting that head on with out all 10

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

I reused my stock head bolts 5+ times......nada once did I have a problem. Nor does my factory service manual say anything about not reusing them (though it does say not to reuse the head gasket).

GSRCRXsi

helms manual does say to replace them. look in the illustrated index.

Shawn C

iTrader: (1)

man, i've got a couple sets layin around, too. i'll sell you the whole set for like $40 shipped... i think one of my sets is for gs-r and the other one is for b16

Combustion Contraption

Factory manuals say to replace them.

On a stock rebuild, i wouldnt bother. On a high performance deal, why not spend the money on the ARP's.

Call ARP, see if theyll send you one. They have real good customer service.

miller

this is a joke right?

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">helms manual does say to replace them. look in the illustrated index. </TD></TR></TABLE>


I think I will.....oh wait, here it is. Illustrated index starts on pg 6-53 and then continues to pg 6-54. I look on 53, nothing there, so I continue to pg 54...read the little note at the top of the page which says, "Clean the head oil control orifice and the rocker shaft orifices when installing." Then I go down and notice " Cylinder head gasket (3 Layers of metal) Replace." Finally i go up to "Cylinder head Bolts, 11X1.5mm, 81 N.m (8.3 kg.m, 60ft/lbs), Apply clean engine oil to threads and washer contact surface." I still see nothing about replacing them in the illustrated index so maybe you can explain just where Im suppose to see this "replace" wording?



Seems they say replace when they mean replace.


Just to prove Im not "covering stuff up" or "hidding" anything.

d16dcoe45

This is actually very true--when I used to run OEM head bolts I used to always replace them when I took the head off because I "heard" that they were torque to yeild. I was recently wondering about this because no where in any service manual for d16s have I ever seen anything referring to replacing them. I have also heard many different people re-using the stock head bolts 2 and 3 times without issue. How come nobody ever mentions anything about the main bolts? Do you think they are a different material? You never hear anyone advising someone to always use new main bolts!! Now on the GM LS1 motors, GM specifically says that the head bolts ARE torque-to-yeild and WILL stretch so they have to be replaced--but with Hondas I feel like its just a rumor that got spread. Any one have any definitive proof that they are torque to yield and will take a permanent set?

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

BTW, go talk to ARP, they'll tell you/spread rumors that the main bolts are one-time use products as well and that you need to buy their stud kit for the mains as well.

DTS

95 integra just laid some serious ownage here,

i was talking to my buddy whos a mechanic at honda and he also said that they do not replace oem headstuds on a regular rebuild unless the motor has very very high miles or they are stripped/damaged.

i would gety the extra arp, or else its always going to be in the back of your mind whether it lasts or not.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Get a replacement ARP.

slofu

don't risk it by running 1 stocker; just run it with the 9 ARP studs that you have until you get another one. 90% holding/sealing is good enough

use the Helm factory tq spec for oem head bolts on the ARP studs- even when you have all 10. Aluminum distorts under load, the ARP studs likely provide more clamping force at spec than do the stockers, and the head is only intended to be clamped so hard, no matter how much force the ARPs can apply. (ARP engineered a stud/cap, which they'll likely gladly replace if it fails. Honda engineered your engine, which neither Honda nor ARP will fix/replace if you damage it.)

for those who pledge full faith in OEM bolts over ARP studs, consider that while re-using the stockers a few times might be safe for a relatively stock engine, high-powered, boosted setups have been known to lift heads and stretch brand new oem bolts.


Modified by slofu at 9:01 PM 11/2/2006

GSRCRXsi

you must have an out of date version or something. im looking at mine right now and it says replace. look in the removal section or something in there. i KNOW it says replace in mine.

SMSP

I don't have a manual so I can't comment, but don't mix OEM with ARP.

One thing I'd like to say is some people reading this may get confused on the nomenclature that is being used.

Whenever you place a bolt/stud in tension you will be stretching the fastener. The amount of stretch (elongation) is a function of (tension, diameter, thread pitch, material, lubrication, thread finish, etc). As long as the stress (Tension/Area) applied is less than the material's yield strength then the material is said to have been in a state of elastic deformation, that is it will return to it's actual shape or in this case length when the tension is removed. Once the material is taken above it's yield stress then it enters into plastic defromation and when the tension is released it will not return to it's original shape or length.

Combustion Contraption

Carroll Smiths Engineer to Win.

One of my favorite books.

Rocket

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Carroll Smiths Engineer to Win.

One of my favorite books.</TD></TR></TABLE>



Good to read if you want to understand what is happen when you are torquing ****.

flyrod

We have re-used (torqued) a set of OEM H23 bolts 6 times without a problem. I'm not sure Turbo EH2 is paying attention anymore... you could probably get away with using 9+1, but why test it?

Turbo EH2

Im still watching Ah so im just better off going with all oem bolts for now, and ordered a new stud

patriot

iTrader: (2)

I've personally replaced OEM headbolts one my previous Honda engine builds if the customer didnt want to buy ARP's. However, as a Subaru technician, I know for a fact that our head bolts are not torque to yield and do not need to be replaced. I know for a fact that VW head bolts are torque to yield and DO need to be replaced. Just my 2 cents...but yeah dude, get the other ARP stud, it's not even worth these peoples time to ask such a silly question.

Drew17th

where can u get one of those helm manuals???

vtec4max

Ok, I don't have a maual but I did talk to Honda and Acura dealers parts guy and he recommend just reusing the head bolts is fine, but for higher then stock HP purpose ARP is recommend. So you tell me.....

soulpwr

Never trust a parts guy. It has been said that clean hands dont know sh**. This is one instance where i believe it to be true. If your motor blew up because of what a parts guy said who's fault is it? Personally I say run all or none either arp or factory