dohcnotec

right to the point... This is a B20B4 (same as b20z). It will be running a Light Port/Polish, Delta 260 Regrind Cams & Cam Gears, Chipped LS ECU with Raised Rev Limiter, VAFC for Tuning. Later on down the road the motor will be seeing boost. No VTEC.

Opinions Please:

1. ITR Intake manifold vs. LS (Don't worry about fitment)

2. JDM ITR Header vs. DC 4-2-1 - Will it hurt Lowend?

3. 2 1/2" exhaust vs. 2 1/4 (for all motor)

4. B16 Tranny vs. GSR Tranny

Thanks

MaxBoost

1) Don't run regrinds
2) Make sure you get valvesprings (and retainers) to take the extra rpms.
3) For the price of a VAFC, and chip you can run a used Hondata Stage2
4) Use a skunk2 ls intake manifold
5) Use a JDM ITR header for now, but if your going boost, why invest money in a header
6) Again, why waste $$ on a 2.5" all-motor exhaust when you will need a 3" Exhaust when you go boost.
7) B16 tranny. No contest.

BlueTeg

iTrader: (2)

Are you sure that the B20b4 is the same as the B20z? I assume that it must be the 99-00 B20 block w/ the 'high' compression pistons?

Why a VAFC if you're not putting a VTEC head on? Just go w/ the SAFC.

ITR IM better for high end powerband. LS IM better for low end powerband. Which do you want...high or low rpm powerband?

DC 4/2/1 header's collector is too small for a 2L engine. If you're dead set on either one of those, then go for the JDM itr header....the collector is slightly larger on the inside diameter than the DC one. <-- will all get tossed when you go boost.

For 2L applications I would stick w/ 2.5" on the cat and cat back portion.

Si tranny higher freeway revs, better acceleration, lower top speed. GSR lower freeway revs, less acceleration, higher top speed. You decide. On a 7,000 rpm redline engine I'd stick w/ the GSR tranny if its a daily driver.

MaxBoost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why a VAFC if you're not putting a VTEC head on? Just go w/ the SAFC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why run a VAFC at all...old technology!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ITR IM better for high end powerband. LS IM better for low end powerband. Which do you want...high or low rpm powerband?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

On boost applications, you'd be giving up 25-75+whp by using a ls intake manifold for a few ft/lbs and only when your off boost...doesn't make sense.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On a 7,000 rpm redline engine I'd stick w/ the GSR tranny if its a daily driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>
With a chipped ECU and bigger cams/valvesprings/retainers, the redline won't be 7000 anymore.

dohcnotec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) Don't run regrinds</TD></TR></TABLE>
Y??? I have heard nothing but good of Delta Regrinds.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2) Make sure you get valvesprings (and retainers) to take the extra rpms.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point but I'm a cheap ***... I will only be going 2-300 RPM above stock (I hate bouncing off of revlimiter)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3) For the price of a VAFC, and chip you can run a used Hondata Stage2</TD></TR></TABLE>
I chip ecu's and I already Have a VAFC (free from a customer for a swap I did). I don't like them but it's cheap and I really don't like HONDATA Fuckn Price Gougers.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4) Use a skunk2 ls intake manifold</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, not cheap, I can get a Type-R with TB for under $250 or a b16/type-r skunk 2 mani only for under $200

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5) Use a JDM ITR header for now, but if your going boost, why invest money in a header</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point, but It will be a few months till I go boost and I can always sell for the price I got it for assuming I don't dent the hell out of it.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">6) Again, why waste $$ on a 2.5" all-motor exhaust when you will need a 3" Exhaust when you go boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>
In my experience 3" exhaust is overkill if not running way over a 10 psi (like 1 bar) and I don't intend to run over 10psi on a stock b20... I figure if I go 2 1/2, I would be able to get away with it on the turbo also, but I don't know if it would be too big for the b20 (not enough velocity??)


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">7) B16 tranny. No contest.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with you on this one. I had a b20b with GSR and later LS Tranny's and the LS Just hurt... BTW I ran a 15.6 with the b20b/GSR Trany ALL STOCK/No boltons in a 2000 Coupe on 17" Chromes/Full interior and slipping clutch... I'm hoping to dip into 14's... Thanks for the imput....

MaxBoost

1) Regrinds suck. Period.
Why run a reground cam, when you can use a fresh billet or chilled core that will be more reliable and not **** with RR geometry like a regrind can.

2) Your revlimiter will obviously be higher, if you chip the ecu or get hondata you can raise your rev-limiter. With valvesprings and retainers you can rev higher safely, assuming you make power at higher rpm's and need to rev higher.

3) If you can't afford a used Hondata, then use Uberdata. It's free and all you need is a chip burner. Spend $50 on a burner, and $50 on an emulator, and you still have $100 left for a night on the town!

4) Skunk (b16), skunk (ls), skunk (gsr), itr (oem), are all similar in price. Those vtec manifolds do not fit on a LS head w/o modification. Skunk 2 Manifold for LS or rigging a itr mani are yur choices..

5) From my experience building several cars and motor setups, it's a waste of time, money, and effort when you try to make a decent setup first, to hold you over til your real setup comes thru. Why waste $400 on a header, that later you can sell for 350, when you can get that $400 right now and buy a wastegate and bov, or hondata, or a turbo, or something for your real setup...

The stock ls header will do fine, plus the slower the car is, the more inspiration you'll have to finish your real motor and turbo setup. A faster motor will keep you content and slow your progress down.

6) 3" Piping will make power on ANY turbo setup pretty much! No matter what boost level. The turbo will spool faster, and make more power! My friend made 46whp going from 2.25" to 3" on a drag kit on 10psi 5 years ago! Also, 1 bar is 14.7psi not 10psi!

What you need to do is look at what you have, and then make a decision on what you want. You need to decide a path: turbo, all motor, nitrous. Make a setup that you can afford and is satisfactory with what your hp, times, and trq goals are. And then DO IT... remember though, things are usually more expensive then what they seem..

dohcnotec

lol... thanks... btw, what emulator do you use, I've been looking for one 4ever... also, I can afford Hondata by all means, but the technology is so old, and they are still charging $500+. I can do everything hondata does + and I charge my customers $150, $100 if they already have the ecu. I would never ever buy a hondata unless it was $100 bucks... 1 last thing, I've seen a 91 Integra running about 7psi on a b18a dyno his 2 1/2 custom exhaust vs a Thermal 3" exhaust. I think he made about 2 or 3 horses... I did like the way it sounded though...

MaxBoost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dohcnotec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol... thanks... btw, what emulator do you use, I've been looking for one 4ever... also, I can afford Hondata by all means, but the technology is so old, and they are still charging $500+. I can do everything hondata does + and I charge my customers $150, $100 if they already have the ecu. I would never ever buy a hondata unless it was $100 bucks... 1 last thing, I've seen a 91 Integra running about 7psi on a b18a dyno his 2 1/2 custom exhaust vs a Thermal 3" exhaust. I think he made about 2 or 3 horses... I did like the way it sounded though...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't own an emulator, but the one I used was the one that hondata sells, which is kinda expensive. Yes, hondata is old technology, but it's worth every penny. It does everything that a stand-alone system can do, it's easy to tune, and it's super easy to use and install. It's a great bang for buck, as is obvious by that amount of people that use it, and the fantastic results it has had. If you were to ask me the #1 product for Honda's in the past 5 years, I would tell you HONDATA! Bar none!

There is no way you can do the same thing that hondata does for $150.00...no way. How do you tune ignition timing with a VAFC and a chip! Hondata is the funk, i've used everything else, and nothing compares. As for that 3" exhaust, your experience was pretty unique, it's pretty weird that they only made a few ponies. Do a search on 3" exhausts in the forced induction forum, there are alot of people that have made ton's of whp switching to a 3" exhaust..

chefboyarluis

is b20b4 the same as b20z?

jayWknight

iTrader: (3)

b20b4 is not the same as a b20z2 engine. The b20b4 was the first generation crv engines here in the states with a 8:8.1 compression ratio in 1997. The b20z2 appeared in 1999 when crv owners complained about the lack of power. The B20z2 has a compression ratio of 9:6.1. The casting of the blocks and heads are the same. The cams are different, minus the bastard children with the p8r head. The b20z2 has a knock sensor that is missing on the b20b4. The intake manifolds are different between the two as well. The b20b4 has a really long intake runners for low end torque while the b20z2 has a power chamber with shorter runners. The shorter runners with the power chamber is suppose to give the best of both worlds with low end and high end power. I know because I have a b20b engine swap. Plus I did a ton of research.

DDTECH

Isn't the b20b4 the same as the b5. AKA the bastard B.. which no oil holes lineup with the vtec heads?