RACING INTEGRATION

is a main girdle really needed for lsvtec build up?
if I use a girdle I have to change everything ( windage tray, oil pickup, oil pan)
but I heard that if I use a 5 main girdle I would be able to use my stock ls windage tray, oil pickup, and pan. is this true?
can I use a gsr or itr girdle in my ls block?
can a lsvtec survive without a girdle?

irev210

waste of money for daily driven cars reving under 9k

HighVelocity

Ls crank is designed to spin to 7500 at most when making lsvtec the better the parts you put in it the stronger it becomes. It also depends on how often you plain to be reving higher then 7500. To be on the safe side build the bottomend strong so a mistake doesnt make you start all over. Doing it right the first time is cheaper then doing it right the secound.

My lsvtec is almost done money i spent on it look on other peoples face when done

98itr0448

you'll need a gsr/itr oil pickup and windage tray if you use a girdle. As far as not needing one..ect. Think about it, why does the gsr and itr come with one stock???humm maybe to stabilize the crank and prevent crank walk. The decision is up to you, but if you ever plan on revving past stock ls redline, a girldle is 200 bucks well spent!

marieT1GRL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">waste of money for daily driven cars reving under 9k</TD></TR></TABLE> listen to this dude..

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -The X mod- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> listen to this dude.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you'll need a gsr/itr oil pickup and windage tray if you use a girdle. As far as not needing one..ect. Think about it, why does the gsr and itr come with one stock???humm maybe to stabilize the crank and prevent crank walk. The decision is up to you, but if you ever plan on revving past stock ls redline, a girldle is 200 bucks well spent!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

typical internet talk right there

EdBoon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98Itr-0448 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">humm maybe to stabilize the crank and prevent crank walk. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Prove it.


Why do I know so many people with lsvtecs with no girdle...who rev to 8500-9000rpm...and have no problems. If you are really worried about ur motor lasting, check your driving habits.

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdBoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Prove it.


Why do I know so many people with lsvtecs with no girdle...who rev to 8500-9000rpm...and have no problems. If you are really worried about ur motor lasting, check your driving habits.</TD></TR></TABLE>


And this is where someone would come back and say "Well if honda put it there, it is good"

honestly, id rather spend 200 dollars in balacing my bottom end

98itr0448

hey, do what you want, no one is stopping you. Run it with stock rods and rev to 10 grand if it helps you prove your point. I just thought it would be extra security for my 5,000 investment. Yeah, and typical honda-tech talk is ....I know a guy who has this friend who saw this guy driving an lsvtec with no girdle. He reved it to 9k all day for 5 years...blah blah blah. I'm guessing you have built a sucessful ls/vtec yourself and have driven it safely with no girdle correct?

Race Egr

listen to Irev210. Ask most any proffesional engine builder they will tell u the same thing he did. For the cost of a girdle to be installed correctly you could have just had your whole rotating assembly balanced

98itr0448

your right. balancing the bottom end is always a good thing, I'm not doubting that at all. I, personally, and at the recommendation of my machine shop, decided a girdle was worth the extra time. I had an itr girdle from my old motor anyway, and out of dumb luck the itr mains fit perfectly on the ls block. They didn't even have to machine anything. If your pinching pennies on your motor build then spend the money on balancing. If you've got the extra money get a girdle too.

Oh and as far as installing them correctly, most of the aftermarket one's are bolt-on. You will have to get a gsr/itr oil pickup,ect, but other than that there should be no prob.

Build yours how you want.
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....D.jpg


Modified by 98Itr-0448 at 2:45 AM 10/22/2004


Modified by 98Itr-0448 at 2:46 AM 10/22/2004


Modified by 98Itr-0448 at 2:46 AM 10/22/2004

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98Itr-0448 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your right. balancing the bottom end is always a good thing, I'm not doubting that at all. I, personally, and at the recommendation of my machine shop, decided a girdle was worth the extra time. I had an itr girdle from my old motor anyway, and out of dumb luck the itr mains fit perfectly on the ls block. They didn't even have to machine anything. If your pinching pennies on your motor build then spend the money on balancing. If you've got the extra money get a girdle too.

Oh and as far as installing them correctly, most of the aftermarket one's are bolt-on. You will have to get a gsr/itr oil pickup,ect, but other than that there should be no prob.

Build yours how you want.

Modified by 98Itr-0448 at 2:46 AM 10/22/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>


Well said.

Both ways work, just which works best will vary from user to user.

johnzm

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1030944


as u can see after all the work you WILL require, your gong to be spending at least 200 dollars more over the cost of the girdle to get everything ready. since your doing all that work u might as well upgrade to aebs main studs at the same time. make that **** strronng if ur gonna do it. but as most ppl said it issint worth it your not gonna see your profits in more hp, longevity, ect ect

1993sir05

.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98Itr-0448 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey, do what you want, no one is stopping you. Run it with stock rods and rev to 10 grand if it helps you prove your point. I just thought it would be extra security for my 5,000 investment. Yeah, and typical honda-tech talk is ....I know a guy who has this friend who saw this guy driving an lsvtec with no girdle. He reved it to 9k all day for 5 years...blah blah blah. I'm guessing you have built a sucessful ls/vtec yourself and have driven it safely with no girdle correct?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have and it has over 12k on it

98itr0448

A few quotes from the link from johnzm....

"This was an email sent to me by one of the techs at ERL Performance, our supplier of sleeved blocks and more.... "

"The girdle is a truss design (ie. bridge, ceiling truss,etc.) which is many times the strength of a flat plate design. Just as you box a frame to increase it's strength, The girdle boxes the main bearing caps to strengthen and reduce bearing movement ... "

"The girdle with its truss design uses the surrounding main bolts to aid the bolts of
the cylinder under pressure (one fires at a time). Another benefit of
maintaining the main bearing alignment is that as the crank rotates the oil
feed holes in the mains for the rods maintains an even flow, rather than the
bearing working as a wiper at the area of small clearance caused by
mis-alignment. This gives more uniform oil flow to the rods. "

It's one of those things that's not "necessary", but worth the extra money in my opinion. I'm sure you can go without one for 10-20,000 miles, but I've got too much money in my build to risk it on a 200.00 part. Think of a girdle as another form of cheap insurance like arp mainstuds, rod bolts, and head studs. You don't have to buy insurance, but it's your investment after all.

LSVTEC 91 Civic

Make certain you use ARP rod bolts, have the rotating assembly balanced & micropolish the crank. You'll be fine.

EF_LSVtec

I've had my motor for 2 yrs, over 25,000 miles, balanced crank, daily drive, weekend autoX, rev 8-9K all day long, no girdle, NO problems...although I'm building another motor and I'm putting a girdle on this one just to be sure.

*Just like the stock timing belt that I used, which worked fine til I stripped all 15 teeth 2 weeks ago. It's a good thing it broke after a race while in idle and not during or I would have bent more than 2 intake valves.

lsvtec101

iTrader: (1)

dont be cheap buy one. i did

RACING INTEGRATION

in my country there is no place that can balance my rotating assy.
I'll have to send my rotating assy to the states. but that is alot o $$

civicgsr19

Yea the bottom end is balanced , but how does this stop the block from flexing?

MikeGRIS

I used one on my b20 bottom, sure it cost extra to get the mains line bored/honed but i think its a great investment, **** hasnt anyone seen the k20 bottom ends? those things have a mega girdle and look at the power those things can support.

but obviously if you want to rev the most important thing is balanced internals start there and then the girdle.

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACING INTEGRATION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in my country there is no place that can balance my rotating assy.
I'll have to send my rotating assy to the states. but that is alot o $$ </TD></TR></TABLE>


where is that?

Pondus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BERT-O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


where is that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zero...33201

Look here

elusive123

you put the girdle on a b series ls so it will fit my b20 no prob right ? was this a lsvtec and what can u rev to safely with low compression pistons h beam eagle rods and a nicely built top end with tat girdle. just out of curiousity

99lsvtecauto

the block on the lsvtec daily driver some say is over kill but mine where followed all the suggested manufacturer and ht how to still caused me to spin a bearing and i never even got 2 8200 on to 6800 rpm with 681 miles on my block do what u like of course u could not feel or see any fitment problems but once i got on the dynos i spun bearing 2&4 on the 1st pass on the dyno