.BigSexy

Ok...
So I am going to be swapping my f22 crank and rods in my h22. And I was told that, if you do this equation...

Deck height - compression height - rode length - stroke/2

so here are my numbers(all values in inches)...

deck height - 8.643
compression height - 1.221
rod length - 5.633
stroke - 3.57

well, I did the math and I get .004, does the mean the piston will prtrude out .004 of an inch??

well, I was just wondering, if the piston has a larger dome, does it mean that it has a larger compression height?? meaning a larger dome = less piston sticking out? that doesnt make sense

GSRCRXsi

means that you are .004" in the hole.

piston dome and compression height are completely different. but if you had more compression height, you would have more sticking out

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">means that you are .004" in the hole.

piston dome and compression height are completely different. but if you had more compression height, you would have more sticking out
</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, thanks. I figured it out in the prelude forum

Hardt

Youd be .081 out of the hole with the H23/F22 crank, H22 rods and H22 pistons, thats a no go.

Your probably going to want to use the H23/F22 rods with the H22 pistons. Youll still be in the neighborhood of .020 out of the hole, which is do'able with a .040 gasket. Compression is going to be pretty high, all depending on which version of H22 piston you are using.

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Youd be .081 out of the hole with the H23/F22 crank, H22 rods and H22 pistons, thats a no go.

Your probably going to want to use the H23/F22 rods with the H22 pistons. Youll still be in the neighborhood of .020 out of the hole, which is do'able with a .040 gasket. Compression is going to be pretty high, all depending on which version of H22 piston you are using.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im using the f22 crank and rods...

with standard OE h22 pistons, you get about a -.020 which is doable.

a stock h22 headgasket is .026" in thickness, so maybe a thicker head gasket is in the works?

also, disregard my numbers up there. The rod length and stroke is for an h22, not an f22. I didnt realie that when doing my math.

Hardt

Not - .020, with the figures provided, your at +.020. Your going to want to piston to head clearance at a minimum of .030 for the H22 (you can get away with a little less but not recomended for street engines). At +.020 you can use a .404 gasket (its been done) but it wont get you near the .030 piston to head clearance your going to want if you plan on running any cam bigger than stock. Id also highly recomend cutting the valve pockets a little just to make things a little less "risky"

You can go .035 intake and .020 exhaust deeper pretty comofrtably on the stock H22 pistons.

If you were a customer of mine, Id get you set up with a .050 gasket (Id feel more comfortable that way) and leave the pistons alone. Compression even with the .050 gasket is still going to be good for a NA street engine.

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not - .020, with the figures provided, your at +.020. Your going to want to piston to head clearance at a minimum of .030 for the H22 (you can get away with a little less but not recomended for street engines). At +.020 you can use a .404 gasket (its been done) but it wont get you near the .030 piston to head clearance your going to want if you plan on running any cam bigger than stock. Id also highly recomend cutting the valve pockets a little just to make things a little less "risky"

You can go .035 intake and .020 exhaust deeper pretty comofrtably on the stock H22 pistons.

If you were a customer of mine, Id get you set up with a .050 gasket (Id feel more comfortable that way) and leave the pistons alone. Compression even with the .050 gasket is still going to be good for a NA street engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

a negative number indicates the piston is sticking OUT of the cylinder

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not - .020, with the figures provided, your at +.020. Your going to want to piston to head clearance at a minimum of .030 for the H22 (you can get away with a little less but not recomended for street engines). At +.020 you can use a .404 gasket (its been done) but it wont get you near the .030 piston to head clearance your going to want if you plan on running any cam bigger than stock. Id also highly recomend cutting the valve pockets a little just to make things a little less "risky"

You can go .035 intake and .020 exhaust deeper pretty comofrtably on the stock H22 pistons.

If you were a customer of mine, Id get you set up with a .050 gasket (Id feel more comfortable that way) and leave the pistons alone. Compression even with the .050 gasket is still going to be good for a NA street engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so ur saying a .050 gasket with stock OE h22 pistons? what about pistons with a larger dome? am I pushing it there?

Hardt

No, a .050 gasket will put you at .030 piston to head. You can run a pretty decent dome at .030, just make sure you clay it if you are running TType S or larger cams to ensure you have the necessary piston to valve.

E-Speed

From my gathering of information and experience on the swap...

h22 block, F22 rods and crank with use of H22 pistons

The piston will stick out of the hole .020, which isn't that bad...if you are going to run a decent cam a thicker head gasket may be a good idea...also keeping in mind your head is not milled...if it is milled between 20-30k a 60k headgasket would be a good idea...and or using Type S 11-1 pistons...

Oil Squirters were put in the H22 for a reason...they are needed for the higher rpm band for the factory cast pistons...if you can use them...then use them...you may be able to bend them out of the way...the h23 motor redlines at 6500 and doesn't have the oil squirters...forged pistons wont need the oil squirters...

The H23 motor is a smog motor...low rpm...low end torque...decent fuel mileage...H23 I believe are more **** to spining bearings then the H22 because of the rod stroke ratio...the custom stroker cranks that are out there (welded up) the h22 crank is being used...with use of a custom piston and obviously a sleeved decked block a B series type of rod could be used...

The H23/Vtec can be a good engine if built right with no short cuts...but is it worth tearing down a good H22 to build one? No...your h22 will make the same or more hp on a mild build...I havent seen a mild h23/vtec motor put up more hp or torque then a mild built h22 motor...

kaoss_11

I have seen someone run h23 vtec with h22 type s piston. I believe the compression was 12.12:1. He used a oem headgasket with no issues

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-Speed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my gathering of information and experience on the swap...

h22 block, F22 rods and crank with use of H22 pistons

The piston will stick out of the hole .020, which isn't that bad...if you are going to run a decent cam a thicker head gasket may be a good idea...also keeping in mind your head is not milled...if it is milled between 20-30k a 60k headgasket would be a good idea...and or using Type S 11-1 pistons...

Oil Squirters were put in the H22 for a reason...they are needed for the higher rpm band for the factory cast pistons...if you can use them...then use them...you may be able to bend them out of the way...the h23 motor redlines at 6500 and doesn't have the oil squirters...forged pistons wont need the oil squirters...

The H23 motor is a smog motor...low rpm...low end torque...decent fuel mileage...H23 I believe are more **** to spining bearings then the H22 because of the rod stroke ratio...the custom stroker cranks that are out there (welded up) the h22 crank is being used...with use of a custom piston and obviously a sleeved decked block a B series type of rod could be used...

The H23/Vtec can be a good engine if built right with no short cuts...but is it worth tearing down a good H22 to build one? No...your h22 will make the same or more hp on a mild build...I havent seen a mild h23/vtec motor put up more hp or torque then a mild built h22 motor...</TD></TR></TABLE>


well, considering that I just spun a rod bearing in my h22( i believe thats it, I have a knock in there in cylinder #1) and it has to be tore down, why not??

I have my spare f22 lying around, and have all the parts I need. so sure...Ill do it. I wont take short cuts, and there has been proof that this **** makes power. By simply switching crank and rods on a mildly built h22, power increased by 17whp, and 11 wtq...

and no milling has been done to the head, nor will it be done of course hoping the head is straight, which it should be.

E-Speed

you are refering to the H2B teg...that is an all out drag car...simply putting it...you can't drive that on the street with that tune that they had on it...so for our street/mild builds its not that accurate of an idea of what a h23/vtec would put out...

from 2 charts that I have seen...

h23 bottom end Type S pistons and stock H22 head 185 hp and 151 ft lbs of torque
h23 bottom end stock...h22 head stock 181 hp and 140 ft lbs of torque...

my jdm h22 184 whp and 158 ft lbs of torque...only massaged and is completely stock internal jdm h22...

Will the engine last as long as my h22? No unless you overbuild it...the h23/vtec engines haven't last too long...


Modified by E-Speed at 8:41 AM 10/25/2006

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-Speed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are refering to the H2B teg...that is an all out drag car...simply putting it...you can't drive that on the street with that tune that they had on it...so for our street/mild builds its not that accurate of an idea of what a h23/vtec would put out...

from 2 charts that I have seen...

h23 bottom end Type S pistons and stock H22 head 185 hp and 151 ft lbs of torque
h23 bottom end stock...h22 head stock 181 hp and 140 ft lbs of torque...

my jdm h22 184 whp and 158 ft lbs of torque...only massaged and is completely stock internal jdm h22...

Will the engine last as long as my h22? No unless you overbuild it...the h23/vtec engines haven't last too long...


Modified by E-Speed at 8:41 AM 10/25/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was just saying...

that the power is there. From what I read, it was only mildly built. JDM cams locked in vtec, and some porting. They sawapped over the pasrts at the dyno, wioth not balancing or anything. My car isnt a drag car, nor doI want it to be.

And I know a guy who built his h23/vtec. just as reliable and lasted as long as any other h22

JDogg

the last motor i built w/that combo had the pistons sticking out of the hole 0.038" .. i ended up using a 0.080'' headgasket.

skunked

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was just saying...

that the power is there. From what I read, it was only mildly built. JDM cams locked in vtec, and some porting. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a VERY mild motor. Just unlock VTEC and retune the car it's streetable without a doubt. Also, there is no porting in that head.

238/170 open header on OEM Internals

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the last motor i built w/that combo had the pistons sticking out of the hole 0.038" .. i ended up using a 0.080'' headgasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmm...

what pistons were u using? what rods? the only other thing I see affecting that mesurment would be ur deck height being shorter

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a VERY mild motor. Just unlock VTEC and retune the car it's streetable without a doubt. Also, there is no porting in that head.

238/170 open header on OEM Internals </TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought I read there was some mild porting. I wasnt sure...just camee off of memory. And I am going to be using OEM internals, except I want to do some head work.

skunked

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I thought I read there was some mild porting. I wasnt sure...just camee off of memory. And I am going to be using OEM internals, except I want to do some head work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope, just a skunk manifold/t-body and a custom header. Stock cam gears too.

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nope, just a skunk manifold/t-body and a custom header. Stock cam gears too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

how long has it lasted?"

skunked

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how long has it lasted?"</TD></TR></TABLE>

He bent a couple valves reving 8500+ on stock springs (hit some oil on the track), besides that it's fine. He literally slapped that motor together for ***** and giggles.

JDogg

h23 crank, pauter rods and wiseco h22 pistons. the block had been decked once after it was sleeved, only a minimal ammount of material was taken off

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He bent a couple valves reving 8500+ on stock springs (hit some oil on the track), besides that it's fine. He literally slapped that motor together for ***** and giggles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

does it make power to 8500??

I dont rev my h22 now to 8k, just around 7800...

And my bottom end is going to be balance, and the head will hopefully be built...

.BigSexy

just trying to figure out the CR...

and was using that calculator as a check figure sort of. Well, when it tells you to select the piston, u can choose the USDM h22 or the JDM h22 pistons. It is saying the dome of the JDM h22 piston is larger. I thought they were the same??

JDogg

hte dome on the jdm piston is a little bigger, jdm motor has a little more compression than usdm motor