super trucker

I have a short story to get you up to speed.....

My RHD CRX conversion ran great. Started almost immediately, ran out nice. Had transmission issues not this summer, but last. Pulled the tranny at a friend's shop. Replaced flywheel, clutch, and had tranny rebuilt inside and out.

While the car was disabled, my "friend" who had the shop pushed the car outside just before the first snow fall, and the car sat outside all winter. When I went this spring to collect the car, I found the dizzy missing, and the plug wires, cap, and rotor laying on the intake. Plug holes full of water. Nothing else missing. Touch screen DVD still in the car and the car wasn't even locked. Nothing touched, but the dizzy. MIA.

I get the car home, get the water out of the plug holes, and remove the plugs. WD40 in the plug holes, and let it sit. Just incase water got in the cylinder. After a few days, I dropped the oil, and flushed a couple times.

So, at this point, new clean oil. New plugs, new wires. Then, new distributor ordered and on the way.

Installed new dizzy, set timing to TDC, and attempted to fire the car. Cranks like crazy, no spark. I hear the fuel pump prime, installed a known working ECU, swapped in a known working dizzy, ohm'd the spark plug wires, checked/cleaned all grounds (even ran a jumper cable back to the battery ground). Still no spark.

What I know....
~good grounds
~good wires and plugs
~good ECU
~good dizzy and components
~ohm'd all wires between ECU and dizzy
~checked main relay
~checked fuel pressure
~good compression
~STILL NO SPARK!

The weird part.....with the spark tester on, when you turn the key to start the car, we get about 2 sparks, then nothing. The engine acts like it wants to start for about two rotations, then just heartless turning. No spark.

I know it seems as though we have checked all the obvious, but that is because we have. My friend and I are not rookies, and we have been beating our heads over wiring diagrams for the last two days trying to get this thing to pop.

Legitimate help only please. Bear in mind the car ran before great. The only thing that happened was the dizzy was stolen, and I have a brand new one that I had to get from Japan to replace it. No USA DOHC distributors will bolt up to my head.

Thanks in advance for the help.

super trucker

Update....

Ran a jumper for the sensors in the dizzy to see if maybe we weren't getting communication between the ECU and dizzy. No difference.

We found that the Optima battery in the car (new) was discharged from all the cranking, and our ECU wasn't getting the 10v it needs. Hooked another car straight to the starter and had a constant 12v. Still same situation. We would get the initial "stutter" and a quick burst of spark, then just heartless cranking.

We are folding it up for this weekend. My partner in crime is heading home to Milwaukee, broken and beaten by this car. I still have to look at the S.O.B. everyday, so i'm only going to get more irritated with it. lol

per the Honda service tech manual, we have back traced, and ohm'd every wire between the ECU and dizzy. We have tested and/or swapped all major components. New plugs, wires, two different dizzies, two different ECU's, and relay.

Sorry to keep repeating myself, I am just trying to help paint the picture for someone else because at this point we are truly at a loss.

93supercoupe

why wouldnt any other Dizzy bolt up to your b16? that makes no sense.

But i had a similar problem with a H2B setup. It would initially fire right away, then wouldnt run. Ended up being a crossed wire in the dizzy harness.

I dont know why or what dizzy you are running, but put and OEM USDM dizzy on it, or check ur harness if it has been converted to obd1 or something.

super trucker

Well, for starters, different bolt pattern. It takes the TD22U dizzy. The closest USDM dizzy to bolt on would be a Del Sol Vtec dizzy, but with modification.

We back traced every wire from both plugs back to the appropriate pin in the ECU. Thanks for the reply!

93supercoupe

not trying to be a dick, at all, but im like 99% sure there only 1 kinda bolt pattern for Bseries vtec dizzy.

Regardless, Is the dizzy and harness obd0? or is the dizzy obd1 and the engine harness obd0?

93supercoupe

or is everything obd0? and what motor is it that it has a different bolt pattern?

reason im asking is because if you are tracing the harness to the ECU, but are using a different style dizzy and had repinned the plug, that you may have re-pinned it wrong.

In my case, the car was an OBD1 integra and the motor and dizzy were a OBD2 h22a. So instead of getting another dizzy, we repinned the dizzy plug to be OBD1. When we did that, we had a wire mixed up.In the hondata, it would should a RPM of like 63,000rpm.

super trucker

63,000 rpm. That'd be neat. lol

My motor is the JDM B16a1. All OBD0. Just as the CRX SiR in Japan. It is SiR front clip, dash forward.

Mr. EG

I re-pinned the SiR harness for my roomate and converted it to an OBD1 B16/Gs-R distributor (On his SiR1 motor) and it works perfect. Check to see if the inner slit is 180 degrees off in the cam.

93egsir

We have been through everything 3-4 times in the 14 hrs straight we worked on it this weekend.

These are the images I referenced when inspecting the wiring.
Also I confirmed all the wiring to the honda service manual using Honda's Technician database (IN.honda.com) Dealers and subscribers only.




Please Experts chime in.
I think I am just looking past something obvious/ simple.

You ask I say if I have checked it.

anothersickhatch

The distributor on the left side is not a VTEC distributor. That bolt pattern is from an LS non-vtec. All B-series VTEC distributors share the same bolt pattern and the same as the distributor on the right side of the pic, which shows the bolt pattern as slightly off center. LS distributors have a bolt pattern that is symmetrical to the center.

super trucker

I may have missed a deleted post or something as far as distributor pics?

It is a VTEC dizzy on the car. The car worked and drove great before all of this with Vtec working as it should as well as everything else working as it should.

Once the distributor was stolen, I shopped for a short time trying to find another one. One with the round plugs, correct bolt pattern, for the OBD0. The DOHC OBD0 was never in a USDM CRX which is why it might seem odd to some. But rest assured, no other dizzy will bolt up.

The known working dizzy we swapped on during diagnosing was straight off of a JDM EF9 hatch with the same motor. That one is straight off the boat. His is the only dizzy in town that will bolt right up to my head.

CHEETAH

iTrader: (2)

start with the obvious...

-check the 10mm bolt ground near the coolant water neck(in rear on tranny side)
-i know its obvious but spark plug wires are in order? and no cracks in them? where are you checking the spark with the tester from?
-new spark plugs? are they fouled with fuel from all the cranking???
-are injectors firing too? (if not that points to an ecu grounding problem)
-how do you know the ECU is working? both ECU and exact same distributor started in the other EF9 B16a swapped car?
-after the initial 2-3 sparks do you get more sparks later after lots of cranking?
-the round distributor plug wires all match on both sides? cream to cream, white to white, blue to blue and all relative striped wires?

anothersickhatch

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...atb/dizzy2.jpg

That is the one you need. The bolt pattern follows the same VTEC pattern. All you need is an OBD0 VTEC distributor from a JDM B16a. If that distributor doesn't work, then something is wrong with the wiring. I am not sure, but it sounds like the guy who stole the distributor may have done something else to the car. If you have replaced everything, the problem must lie in the wiring.

93egsir

Hang on hang on hang on.
This thread is not about which distributor is needed. we have 2 of the correct distributor. To clearify this is not a swapped engine this is a rhd b16 crx with the original wiring and ecu. The parts that were installed as "known good" came from a RHD OEM b16 hatch.

93egsir

Cheetah - Thanks for seeing the topic of discussion.

G101(10mm bolt at t-stat) removed cleaned and double checked.
Spark plugs are new but I do not get spark from a spark tester either
spark plug wires are brand new and ohm out to honda spec
Injectors are firing and fuel is getting into the cylinders.
The main ground at the ecu has been checked for continuity and a jumper added ground just to see if concern is resolved, no change.
The Ecu and distributor that were used for testing purposes came from a running oem rhd b16 ef hatch.
after the initial 2-3 sparks there are none. you could crank until the battery dies and not get another spark until you cycle the key off then back to start.
Both round dizzy plugs from car side to dizzy side have all matching wire colors in there respective position per the picture above. The wires were checked for continuity from the "back side" of each plug to ensure all pins in the connector were making proper contact.
Thanks again for your insight and focus Cheetah

super trucker

Say it again in case they didn't hear you. lol

Thanks Cheetah!

super trucker

Victory is mine!

As I suspected, we overlooked something simple and stupid.

Tonight I got home, and swapped a couple wired in the plug. Engine did something different than before. It would run, but only on one cylinder. Progress???

I then came back inside, and grabbed the harness pin diagram shown above and went out to see if maybe we looked at the diagram backwards or something. Not quite sure what we did, but it was not correct.

Still having the dizzy off of the OEM EF9 JDM hatch mounted to my car, I thought as simple as possible.........why don't I just match the wires on the car side to the color of the wires on the dizzy harness? lol Yeah, sounds really dumb and that is how I feel right now.

These JDM OBD0 distributors are weird man. Totally different than any other USDM VTEC dizzy. I believe the diagram is for a OBD1 VTEC plug and that may have been throwing us off.

Car runs. I am happy.

anothersickhatch

I thought this thread wasn't about the distributor?

93egsir

Really?
It was the wiring and now both distributors work.
To clearify it was not about the application or mounting points. It was about wiring and function based on a symptom.

super trucker

lol.....I love HT.

anothersickhatch

super trucker

You're right. Completely amazing.

"If that distributor doesn't work, then something is wrong with the wiring."
The distributor works just fine. The car side of the harness is what we were having issues with which we mentioned a number of times now. Regardless, the issue is resolved and the car runs. I appreciate your efforts.

BONNARSKI

Just after seeing this thread and my UKDM 1991 CRX B16 Vtec is showing the same problems.

Sorry in advance for any ill-use of Honda terms, i have 11 cars on the go and the CRX was last looked at about 6 months ago so all things Honda have been pushed back so i'm out of keeping with all the usual codes etc.

The story with my car, i bought the car with afew mods, lowered, Scorpion center section and gutted back box so no internals and raspy as hell. The main thing is that the car has been mapped and the limiter removed so you can guess it's been off the clock more times than enough. This was the downfall of the original engine as on a wet, greasy road with a corner the car went past 9000rpm and broke no.1 conrod and mashed the internals in metal pieces.

Anyway, i found a Civic B16a1 VTI-S, sorry not sure on the year but think it was 1999, and fitted it with all the OBD0 wiring, dizzy, sensors etc.

The car ran great with no problems for about 3 months, then out of the blue on my way home it died. I tried cranking and jabbing the throttle but no good. Tried a bump start but same, no go. Luckily i was only 2 minutes from home so pushed the car there and let it site as i got one of the other cars ready to be used.
After i'd finished i thought i'd try the CRX just to see, i fricken started!!! Just my luck lol.

It went for another two weeks then done the same thing but this time it started by me jabbing the throttle and cranking it at the same time.

Another 2 months past when it did it again but this time nothing got it going. I had a quick go at changing dizzys between the OBD0 and OBD1, changing wiring for both in 4or 5 different ways, changed plugs, leads etc at my house as my shed is at another location and most of my tools.

The car is still on timing and has had no other mods from i got it, except the new engine ofcourse lol.

It is sickening me to see the car lying not getting used. I have wanted one for 9 years now and to only get afew months out of it is killing me.

Any help would be most appreciated.

93egsir

The engine harness was my issue. It was a while ago. All I remember is getting the car side harness fixed and it ran.

BONNARSKI

I have went through all components of the A1 and also an A2 dizzy using a how to guide but my findings sometimes do not match what the guide gets for the same tests.

I have tried bypassing the main relay to rule that out with no difference in findings.

I have been looking for info on how to fix the B16 dizzy for much less money than to buy a new dizzy. Most articles are just how to change the internals from one to another using different dizzy, B16 and D16 etc.

Is there a way to frankenstein a B16 dizzy for the cam position and TDC sensor but use an older style dizzy top end, like D14 with seperate coil and rotor arm and no electronic crap to go wrong.

I am aware that an external coil kit can be bought for the B16 dizzy but thats not what i'm thinking.

The best way to describe what i'm looking to do is make a dizzy that will run my B16A1 OBD0 but have no ignitor or ICM to go wrong.

Any ideas people?