jvr

I'm thinking of building my f22b2 for track day/autocross. From looking through the FI forum, I've seen that this motor can handle up to 300+ hp on the stock bottom end with a turbo setup. My question is this: is that only possible since turbo setups run with a low compression ratio? If I am looking for ~200whp N/A, will I need to upgrade the rods/bolts/head studs/bearings/etc in addition to high CR pistons to handle the higher CR, or is how much the bottom end can handle simply a function of hp/tq irrespective of compression?

Also, how would I best go about reaching this power goal? I/H/E, h23 intake manifold, high CR pistons, cam regrind, cam gear, valve springs to handle the more aggressive cam (is this even necessary in a motor that won't be revving much over 7000 rpm?), chipped ecu and a good tune. Will that get me close?

Will the stock fuel system be acceptable for this goal, or am I looking at upgrading the fuel pump and injectors?

Please don't tell me I'm better off with a turbo setup, this build is as much about learning about n/a setups and theory as it is about practicality/cost-effectiveness. I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need for the ENTIRE build before I jump in and start buying parts that I either don't need or would have to upgrade later. I'm still very much in the initial planning phase so any advice is much appreciated.

93egSLEEPER

Just go turbo

In all honesty swapping that motor for an H22 would be the best bang for the buck and with just a few small mods will get you 200whp NA easily. Switch up the cams and intake system and you will start seeing more power.

JoeBlue

Just do a swap and save your money for tuning later on down the road when you will need it.

jvr

You mean an h22 swap? Just for reference what whp does a stock h22 make (assuming I swap the tranny as well)? I sort of wanted to do something unique with the f series but maybe an h swap is the way to go... I really want to tear apart the motor and upgrade the internals but I guess I could do that with the h22 also.

whitesihatch

I thought we already talked about this in a different thread. Find an f20b, h22, or h23 vtec swap.

Short geared tranny, good clutch/flywheel and an lsd. Too easy and no need to question reliability.

F22Master

Full f20b swaps can be found for around $1500. 180+ whp bone stock, short gearing, lsd, and it's direct bolt in.

98vtec

if its for autocross, i could see the use in a f22. high torque capability in lower/mid RPM and can be a pretty well balanced engine. You arent seeing much MPH in that type of racing so the extra torque would definitely help around the cones.

its not about being unique. its about what fits your needs.

jvr

Can the f20b swap be had for $1500 from a reputable online source with low mileage? Or am I looking at a junkyard pull?

Also, is that a super high rpm powerband? That might not be ideal for my intended purpose... I also like the midrange torque for more enjoyable daily driving.

98vtec

i honestly think, if you do things correctly, that you would be better off with the f22.

its not a bad platform. and for what you are going to be using the car for (dd and autocross), it could be a really good success.

throw a H22 transmission on it for a little better gearing. autocross isnt going to need serious power, depending on the class you run in. Going with a swap could put you in a class which would require a lot more work to actually compete in considering the h22 did not come stock in that chassis.

jvr

That is a very good point. At this time I'm only planning to go to open track days, I'm not 100% sure if I want to get competitive, but it's something to think about for the future

Can someone answer my original question about whether it's the total hp/torque output or the compression ratio that necessitates upgrading the bottom end? Ie, if the stock f22b2 can handle 300hp boosted at low compression, would the same stock rods/bearings/etc hold up against 300hp naturally aspirated at high compression?

98vtec

300hp turbo vs 300hp all motor is a very different engine with very different geometry and RPM limits.

its all a bit incorporated though IMO. you wont be able to build enough effective compression for it to really make a difference to the sleeves for a pump gas setup. Effective pressure (na or boost.....boost being higher) in the cylinder on top of RPM will play some major rolls. as you add RPM, the thrust load on the piston increases and this has to have some kind of effect on the cylinder walls, but i am not sure how much of an effect

for a 200whp NA build (try not to concentrate on the peak number), you will not need to sleeve. a 300whp turbo f22 engine still, IMO, doesnt have to be sleeved.

jvr

^thanks, I just wanted to get an idea of whether or not I would NEED sleeves, upgraded rods, bearings, bolts, etc if I did a moderate N/A setup.

As for the n/a f22b2 build, what sort of compression do I need to shoot for to get as close to 200whp as possible (on pump gas)? A smooth torque curve and general driveability is more important to me than peak numbers. Keeping that goal in mind, how should I go about reaching my compression/power goal? Is there a drawback/benefit to using very high CR pistons vs milling the head, vs using different thickness headgasket, vs different length rods... Is a combo of these more effective? Does one require a more aggressive cam, different fuel, etc? I have read lots of threads in this section and people seem to use different methods to achieve their compression, but I'm not clear on why they choose one method over the other.

You guys are great btw, I really appreciate you taking the time to educate me.

F22Master

F20B DOHC VTEC only came in overseas cars. Pretty much every JDM importer has them, or can get them. They are pretty good daily motors, but were really designed for circuit racing. They were the basis of Honda's premier touring car for that period. Very reliable, and will rev to the moon. The trans they come with is second only to the JDM ITR trans. It really is a great package, and Im not sure why they arent more popular. Everybody just loves the H22 too much...

jvr

Wow so I can get a low mileage imported f20b+tranny for only $1500? That is tempting... What is the powerband like on those, is it a high rpm screamer or does it have decent torque down low? I'd like my accord to be fun to drive without having to rev it past 5-6k on the regular.

What auxiliary costs am I looking at in addition to the engine and tranny... Can I get an obd1 f20b or will I need to do a conversion? Does it usually come with the ecu and harness and everything? I'm trying to piece together some notes on total cost so I can compare mlthe various options.

If anyone can chime in on the various methods of increasing compression and their benefits/drawbacks, I'd appreciate it. The build threads go into detail about how much the head was milled, what pistons/HG were used, etc but I'm too much of a noob to really understand why those decisions were made.

F22Master

The F20B comes with 11:1 compression stock. Not exactly sure on the power band. Just Google "F20B stock dyno".

whitesihatch

F20b also has great sleeves for boost, something to consider in the future.

Its like a h and b motor combined imo, great motors.