garage213uk

Ive been wondering whether any of u guys cross the pond have done or heard of a D16 block with a B16 head conversion.

Has it ever been done & if so what if any extra info is needed?

Cheers

2.0L_of_fun

i dont want to say it is impossible but it will not be reliable. an sir swap will cost the same price as an adapter palte (if you dont have to go custom). i'm a d series lover but an sir head is worthless. just put some p29 in you block, zex 59300 cam with a pnp head and get it tuned. you will see good number.

1.5Slowmatic

cant happen. bore spacing is way different. for less money you can build that D to be faster than a b16 anyway.

Hybrid96EK

Not without force feeding it you can't.

1.5Slowmatic

really now, we don't need to start this debate. It very easily can and if you had half a brain you would know that

2.0L_of_fun

my freind go 162whp out of its d16z6. p29 pistons, pnp head, 59300 cam, bisimoto headers, edelbrok intake, 2.5" exhaust, arp head stud,jdm lsd si transmission,

the sir is a way behind him.

spun Vtec

Scrap the b16 head idea and either buy a b16 block/tranny or sell the head and buy d16 parts.

Which you choose depends on 3 things:

what your goals are, what skills/tools you have, and how much you want to spend.

lets say you have $1500.00 to spend

If you have the skills to reduild the dseries block with some p29's, replace/ rebuild the tranny with decent gears, replace the cam, springs, retainers and have the head ported, and take the car to have it tuned you will have a decently faster setup than a bolt on b16 swap. both options cost around $1500-$2000

Same mods to the b16 swap and you will have a faster car ( not by all that much depending on how good the port and tune on the d16 was ) but it will cost you over double the cost of the d16 build.

On the other hand its 100 times easier to swap a b16 in and have close to 160 fwhp than it is to do the d16 build mentioned above.

Hybrid96EK

So all that money and this is somehow cheaper then a B16 swap? Its still only ~22whp behind a STOCK B16 also. I guess each to his own. Perhaps I just don't have 'half a brain' as mentioned above. This thread isn't about how effective an NA D is, so I should just keep my opinion to myself I suppose.

EG6 Master

...... WOW!!! I gather that you like the D Series, but simply put.....WOW!!!

1.5Slowmatic

the quote below sums it up. I like all motors but swapping but deciding whether to swap a b16 or build your D motor its more cost effective to build the D. Spend 900 on the trans and the other 600 on the motor and there is 1500 and its faster than a b16. You just cant seem to grasp cost effectiveness obv. with your Mugen ECU BS.

89s1

ummm, what? stock b16's make ~180whp now? What planet are you from?

89s1

hey look, a b-series fanboi with a wallet and no actual knowledge. You sure are a rare breed aren't you???

Oh wait... I forgot what forum I was on.

Top Ramen

The last b16 I built made 208 whp on pump gas. I've yet to see an NA D series motor come close to that.

spun Vtec

Maybe you should reread the thread, no one ever spoke of a built B series.

1.5Slowmatic

really, have you not seen the dyno cahrts of some of bisi's motor with just pistons a cam and carbs making over 200hp? Or why not go talk to wil at exospeed about some SOHC numbers

88Hatchy

Looks like there are more D16 fanboys in her than the other way around.

I don't know how you are counting, but I can't see a high hp NA D16 being built for $600. A good header alone costs that much. Add in the cost of headwork, machining, rod bolts, bearings, cam, pistons, intake, and gaskets, and the cost really increases. You also have to realize that it is beyond the skill level of most people. These people are better off with a factory B16 or LS.

I'm with Ramen, I have yet to see a 200+ whp NA D16 on 93 octane pump gas.

Top Ramen

I did read the thread. If your point is to compare a built motor to a stock one, you sound like the guys who claim their mustang is "better" than a ferrari because they can put a blower on it and it still costs less. Building up that 200 hp B16 was cheap. The only expensive parts were the cams (a used set of Pro 1s that cost me $350) and valve springs. I don't hate D motors, I just don't like listening to pointless claims comparing a modified motor to a stock one.

I know Bisi and I have talked to him about his motors, but I have not seen them in person. I am also not about to put carbs on a daily driver - that's taking a step backwards. They are fine for drag motors, but make the car much harder to start and negatively affect mid-range throttle response.

Frankly, that B16 was the last one I put together and it was years ago. I just don't bother with anything less than a 2L B series or a K motor now. Aside from saving money, there's no point to messing around with anything else. It takes me the same amount of time, no matter what I am working on, and I would rather have the extra displacement and a better design.

If you are going to make comparisons, make valid ones. The D motors can be cheaper, but that is really their only advantage.

.Manny.

iTrader: (1)

That's why I went B20Vtec. Catch me now little D.

89s1

LOL Top Ramen you make it sound like that 208whp b16 was bolt-ons, while we all know damn well that 200+ whp b16's are quite rare.

no one in this thread said that d16's make better power than b16's n/a. Get your head out of your ***.

All we are stating is that if you already have a d16, you could spend what a swap costs and have a better powerband than a stock b16a.

Top Ramen

Only bolt-ons? I specifically said I cammed the hell out of it and I said I 'built' it. My point was that it was not very expensive. Most of the parts were used (including used pistons) and were both cheap and easy to find. I ported the head myself (paid for a good valve job), spent the $70 to mill it, ported the intake myself, fabbed the CAI (bought the BPI stack new), balanced the rods and pistons myself, did the coatings myself, etc. There was not a lot of money involved. And, b16 prices seem to be dropping by the week.

Again, I don't hate D16s, I've built a bunch with boost for daily drivers. I would just rather put my effort into a motor that has more potential.

[Note - Edited to tone down the irritation. My original post was made right after walking in the door from one of my restaurants after beating the crap out of some no-neck goon in an Affliction shirt who thought it was okay to grab my female friend's butt just because she's hot. My hands hurt like hell and I probably have at least one broken rib. I sincerely apologize to anyone who read the original, really cranky version. I was still really jacked up on adrenaline.]

88Hatchy

D16 - FREE
Machine work - $300 (I'm just guessing here, bore/hone, pistons onto rods, install rod bolts & resize.)
Pistons - $150 (P29)
Headwork - $700 (CC)
Header - $600 (Bisi)
Intake - $260 (Skunk2)
Cam - $350 (Bisi level 3)
Cam Gear - $135 (Bisi)
Bearings - $120 (ACL)
Gasket set - $80 (another guess, aftermarket)

=$2695

This doesn't include shipping either. Lets say it's $50.

If you have a SI or EX transmission then you would be better off. If you want Something better, then you will need a new final drive. You still wont have a LSD though. Add another $500.

This is also assuming that whoever can assemble an engine and replace transmisison internals.

Thats damn near $3200!! For that you could get a GSR swap.

A lot of people say "Well, you don't have to take it to a machine shop..." Here's the deal: If your not going to do it right and have an engine that lasts, then you might as well not do it.

If you just like D series engines then thats fine. There is nothing wrong with them. But don't lie to people about this ****.

CivicSi95

you guys obviously didnt read his post. he is wanting to know if you can put a b16 head on a d16 block. the answer is no, you cannot put a b16 head on a d16 block.

Top Ramen

We did read. You clearly haven't; it was answered in the second reply. Now we are moving on to the mandatory DvsB H-T mayhem.

89s1

d16z6, free
p29's - $150
stock port head - free
Machine work - $300
Bisi stage 3 d16z6 cam - $350
Skunk2 Intake mani - $260
b16a 60mm throttle body - $15
ebay header, portmatched - $50
bisi cam gear - $135
Gasket set - $80
tuning - $600 (rather spend it here than on the bisi header TBH)

Shipping, that same $50 you threw in

$1990 and you've got ~145whp.

B16a sirII stock $1900 +shipping(motor,tranny,ECU) add another few hundred for odds and ends... you're at ~145whp the big difference being the torque output of the d-series.

Sure you've nearly hit the ceiling with the d16, you'd be able to squeeze 15-20 more whp out of it, but at that point you're into the big money. Headwork, bisi header etc.

Having said all that, the b-series is the best bet if you'll be working n/a exclusively. The d16 is made to be boosted and trying to massage 200whp out of it is a waste of money for your average joe.

I just figured I would do a less baller build.

I'm not foolish enough to say d16 is a better bet n/a than b16, or ANY b-series for that matter, but I wanted to continue the debate we've turned this thread into.

Hybrid96EK

This isn't directed specifically at you, more for the whole thread. Just want to make that clear.

Your list doesn't include bearings or rings... Both of which I can only assume you don't want to reuse your stock parts or are we really grasping for straws this much to argue this point?

So add in the bearings and rings, there is another $120 if you want to use cheap parts. You also have NO headwork listed in the above build.

You have "Stock port head". Without headwork, that engine isn't going to flow worth a rats ***. I don't care WHAT cam you stick in there, D series head flow like crap in stock form. Id say even if you got your headwork done cheap as hell (prolly not reccomended) you would spend an easy $500.

Now you also didn't include springs. You aren't going to be running any large cam on the stock single cam springs. I can compress them by hand pretty easily for crying out loud. You start spinning them higher with a lot of lift and durration and they are you are going to float valves. Add this in. Looks like I found the Bisi springs for $179.

Lets also not forget a VERY important piece to this puzzle. You want to compete with this B16 swap you are trying to race and you are going to need to consider doing SOMETHING with your tranny. Those stock EX/SI gears just plain aren't going to cut it. Whatever torque you did gain over the stock B16 is going out the window from your gearing handicap. Now tranny work isn't cheap. Even if you did things yourself I would say expect to spend say $400 on modifying your tranny.

All the above figures ALL assume you are doing this work yourself and not paying anyone along the way, which is a HUGE savings I might point out. Your list just grew another $1,200 and this is again just to make the same whp, maybe a touch more, then a STOCK B16 swap.

Don't get me wrong here. I know you can make a single cam quick. I know it can put out more power then a STOCK B16... I'm sure with enough money I can make my B16 put out more power then an S2000... But the question still remains, "WHY?"... There are simpler routes. Perhaps you like the D series. Cool. I respect your opinion and wish you luck with the build. Just remember the B16 is a better platform to work with.. Just like the B18C is a better platform to work with them my B16... etc.. You get the point, the list goes on.