DazeMS

The cams are not that bad considering the lack in the upper rpms. These cams make more HP over even the same setup gsr with a set of your cams. PSI had a customer with your cams, while it made 201 whp at 9k. My hp and torque pretty much walked all over your cams throughout the power band except after 8200. From what PSI tuner Steve has referenced, he wants the graph to move over to the right more. Thats why I feel he is recommending the victor x. I am fully aware of the diff. between the two X manifolds. I am skeptical of the victor for the same reasons as above. Cost is always a factor and I cant find any performers for less then 330$ plus shipping.. the victors are much cheaper at around 260-270$ shipped. I have plans of FI in the next couple years, soooo hmmmmm.

pic I took after doing some maint and a partial wire tuck...

Natural Aspirations

There is a shortened Performer in the classifieds for $300

DDTECH

I think you're talking about "soloDC" on here. If you take the time to search, you'll clearly see, my cams were just " dropped in" afr tuned on the street, and then dynoed. The Crower cams were fully tuned, and gears moved. Thats neither here nor there really, Track results matter, he went faster with my cams..

People get caught up in "dyno numbers." Andrew's fastest time with the crower's was like 13.2?..and was barely clearing 100mph i think.. If you read through the thread you'll kindly find the information you need.
And i have all graphs from there, no where did "my torque" get walked on, at all. Again.. run the car at the track. Oh, btw just for referance, he no longer owns the car, his buddy bought it. But i believe its making around 215whp, still a stock, 190k+ usdm gsr block..for just bolt ons, and a cam, and tune, i think 215whp is pretty good..
I'll say it point blank .. the edlebrocks are a "nice" cam for something thats alittle bigger then stock, its nothing crazy and warrents as such.
Incase you can't use the thread search https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/stock-block-usdm-gsr-dc2-into-12s-3033756/ is the thread.

In the NA for sale section above, there's a guy selling a modded pX manifold, which should help with upper rpm movement. I was going to buy it, but i became a AFI dealer and had them make me a manifold instead. The modded pX would probably do well for a very mild/stock 1.8 liter looking to rev higher. Its also been tested by mikey on 2.0+ and king motorsports as well, seems to do very well on those types of setups too.. depending on mods.

Salami

You can get a Performer X from Amazon for $290 shipped.

DazeMS

It seems your taking my comment a bit personal.. Nothing against you, as the graph we did compare to your cams, I cant say it was andrew, but this has nothing to do with knocking on you. We compared a few setups to see how the graph was sitting. My plot is a bit different then most as it sits farther to the left , even with similar moded GSR's as he had like 10+ to look at lol.. I will see about getting a "smoother" graph emailed to me to share.. haha relax derek. I just had them tune my car, and steve did it, not Dave. So I dont think it was the same guy. cheers.

DDTECH

I dont take anything personal on here, at least not anymore.

I was simply correcting you thats all. To get a real big time factor, we need to see the car's trap speed before anything else should be look at for power.

good luck on it

DazeMS

THe graph is still uncorrected , but smoothed. This provides a point for two discussions, 1) smoothing provides an easier comparison 2) comparing other peoples graphs is moot unless done in the same fashion, as STD smoothing tends to raise your numbers , SAE tends to lower them, and heavy smoothing tends to average your uncorrected numbers which lowers your points to make the graph more legible. lol

Anyway, here is the graph smoothed, hope this is easier for people to read lol just dont focus strictly on numbers here as its only for comparison. If i STD the graph it would of read 187

DDTECH

You have the "hump". Its just lower.. I'm assuming this is because of the manifold you're running.

Where was vtec set..?? Between 4.5k and 5k thats a nasty dip.. but the hump for the header is between is 5400-6100rpms..
Probably not as noticeable as other setups because the parts work together with what you have. 187 is not bad for bolt ons, and very mild cams.

Again, mph will tell the story. Like i stated before, its a very solid/respectable setup, i just know it has more in it.
Peak torque at like 6300rpms is telling me that it needs to breath quite a bit more.

Natural Aspirations

Derek, I don't think the guy wants your cams. Your 108-110 MPH trap certainly isn't impressive in your EG hatch.

IPG has a ported performer for sale pretty cheap

DDTECH

LMAO.. Not worth it. Considering its higher then that, its really not worth the response. Its not about my results anyway, its about my customers. They speak for themselves, take your personal problems somewhere else. What did your NA motor make/trap on OBX ITBS when you were testing? What about on different headers you tested? How about the different cam profiles, how many did you design? Who runs your cams? How many IFO's have they won? What about points champs, how many times have they won? Get where its going? Stop taking cheap shots, you have nothing.

Besides, I personally guarantee with another set of cams, doesn't matter if its mine or not, pro1's, s2s2's, HELL Crowers even.., anything else he'll make 195+, have a better torque curve and rev higher. The motor peaks @ 7400, which isnt the best, truth be told. He wants a high reving motor(powerband moved to the right), he's going about it all wrong. I'm trying to help, quit taking cheap shots that hold NO water.

Point blank, he took a chance on cams that "look" good on paper, but really aren't good for anything other then something thats alittle bit bigger then itrs, i dont even think these things come close to skunk2 tuner 1 cam measurements.

Good luck, unsubscribing.

98vtec

Stop with the damn personal attacks. If you cant come into a thread with someone you dont like and be cordial, dont post. Ive had enough.

I have to deal with enough crap keeping this forum clean, i dont need two seniors battling each other over stupid ****.

Squash it.

DazeMS

whoa... hold the phone. First, my graph peaks at 7500.. not 7.. 2ndly, the way my first bump is at, is due to the resonance from the AEM CAI. This intake was designed to work with a stock gsr resonant response. If I changed my intake, Im pretty damn sure it would go away. BUT, my torque curve would change for sure. Ive already talked about all the information your referencing. 5300 vtec cross was NOT GOOD.. we changed it to 4800 and I gained massive amounts of hp and torque from 4800-6000rpm. The INtake manifold is hurting me more then anything on my setup, you can clearly see it WANTS to breathe but runs out of steam at about 7500 and just falls away. This is typical of a smaller volume plenum over the p72 which I feel would probably out perform the older skunk2 pro..

I did not go with more aggressive cams for several reasons, COST was one of them. It was a toss up of ITR cams and these and for the price of NEW camshafts over used I saved a bout 75-100$. The cam profile is slightly more aggressive then ITR's and should have no problem making power to 8500. Either way, as I have mentioned before, I plan on going FI and I dont not want to keep buying parts only to switch them out. These cams have been used on various setups and have proven to be a decent cam for 300$. end of story. I was hoping to Help everyone that was curious on how these cams would preform out of the box on a typical bolt on b18c1. As far as I know, I am the only one providing any real world numbers on these N/A.. The fact I am making the numbers I am , on what I have to work with at a lower rpm says something, you dont have to rev to the moon to make sub 200whp numbers.

DDTECH

I'm done

DDTECH

Reread my edits, you quoted alot of which i changed.

The AEM intake is very known for the "bumps" in the PW too.. This is where "tuned" length intakes come into play.. and would get rid of that while producing a better curve. I know your motor peaks @ 7500 rpms, and then quickly falls on its face. Read the re-edit.. Cost i understand, not alot of people can afford to mod a car the way they want.. pro1's can be had for around 300-450, same price actual as a set of ITRS.

Going Turbo? Bigger cams will help, you'll become more efficent at flowing air in the lower rpms, it'll also help with spool time with a properly set of profiled primaries, among other things. This isn't "guessing" this is what I've tuned, and actually see work, not just on cars i've tuned, but cams that i've profiled. For street cars, spool time is a big thing.. If you're dead set on a set of affordable cams, the GSC's are a great shelf profile to look at, that would do all the above. It is a "decent" cam for 300 bucks, hell, anything would be a upgrade over GSR's. But if you're reving to stock redline which is 8200, you're falling off rather quickly after 7800..big time.

I would try to find some PCV or alum intake piping with a vstack on the end and play with length, it would help to have a vstack on the end, as i've seen significant gains with and losses without one. I recently did a test on a SRT8 and My G8GT with the vstack. Most domestic guys aren't really "into" the whole vstack thing, but We saw anywhere from a 8-13whp difference on back to back dynos from adding a Vstack to the intake pipe vs without. BPI's or Blox's can be had for fairly cheap too. Granted my test were on v8's but i would think a 3-6whp on a 4cyl is doable..as well as helping air velocity.

Good luck!

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

I have Derek's old Performer X IM manifold for sale if you are interested OP. PM me

blackeg

i was very curious to see how this all went down and how the cams worked. i thank you for posting up the results. i also agree that for about 300 bucks new they are worth it. not going to make lots of high rpm power, but more so as a new in box alternative to itrs.

did you guys try a vtec around 4500 rpm? you can see the power jump at 4800, i wonder if that dip could have been tuned out by dropping the vtec even more...


here's my only hypothetical argument against them for solely all motor purposes:
i believe the lift especially on the intake necessitates a set of aftermarket valvesprings, more than itr dual springs. now, if im going to have to buy aftermarket springs, why not get a bigger cam like a pro1 for example which will make more power both in and out of vtec. im just saying....

now for your situation which involves turbo in the future, im sure that the cams will work well for a 50 to 60ish lb/min turbo setup

DazeMS

black... I hear ya bro. I originally wanted pro1's. due to your exact arguments and yours as well derek. These cams fit in my budget and for the tune and other odds and ends at the shop. I hit a bill of 1300$ with tune and crome pro. On the plus side, I have the valvetrain to run pro1's if I do decide to go that route eventually , but for now, its a decent setup for a base line to change some things around. First order of biz will be the IM without a doubt. I am working my way up for FI which is a year or two down the road. That would involve a built block etc.. I have a ported p72 staring at me lol, so if need be, I can build it off the motor and swap later on..

I asked about the vtec engagement, the response was one of , I dont want to go too low as it can cause issues with oil pressure.. but even 4600 looks like a good spot.. so I ask, would 4500-4600 be fine or what?

blackeg

Yea I mean you could try 4600 but that would really involve the dyno again watching how it changes the curve. For what its worth I have my itr cams at 4600, but that is an entirely different motor. I can say for sure though that with any sort of throttle it never goes below 75 oil psi above 3000 rpm which is at least the spec on the oem pump as per honda

DDTECH

I've actually never heard of vtec issues on low engagment. I've heard and have had other tuners including myself have GSR's and H22's like lower types of vtec under 4K, this is due to the way the motor was setup however.. I've also had others like vtec really high, this is normally due to a choking issue, thats overcome by rpms eventually..

I dont see why a 4300RPM vtec level would be bad. In the least.

DazeMS

He only mentioned like 4k and below, but its set at 4800 lol and the dip starts at 4500 so IDK guys.. was a long day I guess haha. Retune is like 200$ instead of 400, so I will have to wait for funds, which may not be soon.. bills bills bills.. :/

DDTECH

If you want, send me your map, i'll take a look over it, and see if anything jumps out.

DazeMS

I don't have the chip reader.. but I honestly feel my afr. is high etc.. be nice to actually see wtf was really done etc.. know anyone selling one for cheap?

DDTECH

You can get em off https://www.moates.net/

blackeg

ill vouch for moates products. ive been using my burn1 and ostrich for years

KevMiha

Noob to site and just researching. Learned a lot from this thread. Thanks for the info guys!!