People_Mover

My Nitrous Info page: Fast & Furious STYLEZZZZ

This is the VERY new information post……..
NOS <A HREF="http://www.buyperformance.com/products/productDetails.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=1531765&F OLDER<>folder_id=1531563&affID=31612&bmUID=1 071893031421" TARGET="_blank">ZEX</A>
---------------------------------------------------------
Will my car be as fast as those from the movie?

NO the MOVIE WAS FAKE if you are only looking to get nitrous because of the movie you do NOT belong here

---------------------------------------------------------
Is n2o dangerous???

Well any Strong MOD on a car can be dangerous, but n2o is just as safe as a turbo and a supercharger as long as you use your brain and don’t over due it

________________________________
What is a Wet kit and What is a dry kit???

A n2o wet kit is when the n2o is activated and spraying the system sprays a matching amount of fuel thru the nozzle with the n2o to give a “more accurate shot” A n2o dry kit is when the n2o is activated and spraying the system uses a vacume to adjust the fuel pressure and use the cars injectors to spray the fuel accordingly

____________________________________
Items recommended to get with a 50-65 dry shot….

If you are going to run a 50-65 dry shot it is not required but it is recommended that you get these mods..
1. new plugs ngk bkr7e’s
2. fuel pressure regulator
3. new clutch,, yours will die after a little while

------------------------------------------------------
High compression

as with any major poweradder and high compression the higher compression the stronger the shot.
usually its about a 15-25% increase in shot size for the increased compression.
Nitrous Loves High compression but always start small and make sure you have enough fuel to back it up

________________________________________
Items recommended to get with a 65-80 dry shot…

If you are going to run a 65-80 shot dry it is highly recommend you get these mods in addition to the other mods..
1. New fuel pump Walbro makes a good one “Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump”
2. Some sort of device to retard the timing automatically “it helps your car run better” MSD BTM or the MSD Dig 6+
3. Motor mount inserts “needed to keep the car from hopping when n2o kicks in”

________________________________________
Items recommended to get with a wet shot…

1. new plugs ngk bkr7e’s
2. FPR
3. New clutch
4. Fuel pump
5. Motor mount inserts

______________________________________
Do you need to retard the timing when spraying and how much to retard???

This question is under very high debate right now so I will post one answer,, The common answer is to retard the timing 2 degrees for every 50hp shot of n2o… But most people have not retarded their timing till a 75 shot and then only retarded it 1 degree they feel you should not have to till at least 100hp shot.

This is also the way I feel “zex has a dramatic retard change” nos does not ?
<A HREF="http://www.buyperformance.com/products/productDetails.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=1531765&F OLDER<>folder_id=1531563&affID=31612&bmUID=1 071893031421" TARGET="_blank">Zex Kit (#82011)</A>
55hp 65hp 75hp
Nitrous Jet 32 35 38
Fuel Jet 36 34 32
Ignition Retard 0° 2° 4°

______________________________________
Which is better WET or DRY???

This depends on what you want to do,, if you are going to run less then 70-75 then dry would be best for you it is perfectly stable and easier to install.. But if you are going higher then 75 you might want to try a wet shot since the wet does manage the fuel better when spraying.

_____________________________________
How much to fill up a bottle and how big are they?

Most bottles hold 10 pounds of N20. The price varies according to where you live. In Orlando Florida I use to pay anywhere from 2.50 a pound where they freeze the tank for a day,, to 3.50 a pound where they pump the gas in.

______________________________________
What is a window switch and is it needed??

A window switch is a device that when the power to the n2o is activated and the car is a WOT it will only let the n2o actually fire in the range that you specified with the switch “you change this with pills that set the rpm range” Example: you insert a 5000pill and a 7500pill you floor the car when you reach 5000 rpm the n2o will spray till you hit 7500rpm then the n2o will turn off….. Is the window switch needed… it depends on how paranoid you are most people do not think it is worth the hassle to install the switch,, but if you are running a chipped ecu I actually would recommend it due to the higher rev limit..

______________________________________
How big a shot can my car take???

Well that depends on what you are going to do if you are going a dry shot do not go higher then 75 due to the restricted fuel flow you will experiencing,, If you are going wet shot then max I would say is 100 shot with all the upgraded mod items.. Everyones cars are different so this is just a hard question to answer it is best to start with a small shot and keep checking the engine to see if you have any damage and slowly upgrade.. if your motor blows dont try to hide the damage any experienced tech can tell if you had a major mod,

______________________________________
Will I be able to beat this and this and this with this shot??

Well that all depends on you, you cant rely on your car to be the sole thing to beat another car everything is up to the driver,,,, You can have a very fast car and still lose to a slow car with a good driver

______________________________________
Can you put n2o in ……

You can install n2o in ANY car you want all you need to do is figure out what type of kit you want and convert it to fit your car

_____________________________________
Do I need a purge kit and will it fit on my kit?

NO a purge kit is not needed,, a purge kit just removes the dead air in the line it saves you about .1 of a sec off your time, and the amount of n2o that gets sprayed out with the air could be used for another pass down the track, “you blow about $1.50-2.50 each time you purge”,,, Yes,, any purge kit you get can be hooked up to any n2o kit you have

_______________________________________
Do I need a n2o gauge and what other guages do you recommend??

Yes, it is a great thing to get a n2o gauge the reason for this is that if you have the gauge on the dash it will help tell you if you have enough pressure to race and if you have any n2o in your tank,, it sucks pulling up to race and finding out your tank is empty,, I also recommend a fuel pressure gauge and a air/fuel gauge,, but I can not in good conscience recommend the autometer air/fuel gauge get a good one like greddy or hks the autometer one when on a dyno with a air/fuel test being done the autometer was wrong which could cause damage..

____________________________________
Where would you plug the n2o gauge into?

To get the best reading of the pressure on your line I plugged our gauges into the line closest to the solenoids to get the most accurate reading

__________________________________
Where do you mount your equipment?

Well the purple box most people mount it right behind the intake manifold it is a very tight squeeze but it will fit and looks nice there,, this is the same place I mounted my NOS setup. The tank the best place to mount is in the trunk behind the driver side “it is best here because” on the driver side of the car you have the brake lines run so you can put your n2o line run in the brake line runner so the n2o line will not get crushed which stinks from experience.. ______________________________________
Where to put the nozzle??

The best place to mount the nozzle is 1-6 inches from the throttle body the dry kit I recommend 6 inches If you are using a dry shot and you have a AEM you can use the oil return line and tap the nozzle into that or drill a hole in the bottom and aim towards the throttle body,, if you are using a wet shot I recommend about 2-3 inches and try to point it to the runners to make sure the fuel make it in with the n2o..

______________________________________
When to spray??

When can or when should you spray ,, well 2 gears you should not spray in is 1st and 5th the reason being is that in first you will just sit and spin but with practice you might be able to learn how to do it,, with 5th that is the weakest gear on the clutch and tranny due to it is a highway gear and not made to handle the sudden kick of power.. And try not to spray until 4500-5000 rpm to make sure the engine is nice an spinning and try to stop by 7500-7800 so you wont bounce and cause some damage

_____________________________________
What is the best bottle pressure to run and how to get that much pressure??

When you are going to spray you want your bottle at the highest pressure you can get but not to dangerous 1300 is extremely high and dangerous your burst disk might blow,, 1000-1200 is the best pressure to get the most out of your kit below that you will feel it but not as hard.,,with bottle pressure of 600 you really wont feel that much at all To achieve this you should get a bottle blanket and or a bottle heater,,,, and YES other companys blankets and heaters will work for other bottles.

______________________________________
What kind of times will I get with n2o

Well it depends on you but here is a easy way to figure it out,, with a 50 shot take off .5-.75 off your average time with a 100 shot take off 1-1.5 off your average time ”estimated” this has been tested with timeslips from other gas heads..


_______________________________________
Do I need internal mods in my engine??

You should only need internal mods with a shot of about 100 or higher if higher then 100 then I recommend piston, rods, valves, springs, retainers, cams, cam gears..

_____________________________________
Can I run cams with n2o??

I have checked with 90% of the manufactures that make cams and see if they recommend or think their cams work with n2o, and so far the only companys that say theirs will work are Crower makes a set that they say works with n2o, JUN stage 1 says it can handle n2o and ZEX makes a set that works well with n2o,, most other companys say they have not tested with n2o and do not recommend it and say it sould void warrenty ,, but many people still run aftermarket cams with no problems AFTER tuning

_____________________________________
My car has high miles can I still run n2o?

Yes you can still run n2o but you are putting extreme strain on the engine at on time so it could damage it I recommend a wet shot for this to make sure you have enough fuel and retard the timing alittle more and also do not spray above 50 to keep it safe..

________________________________________
What is the jetting needed

Wet NOS
Shot Size N2O Jet Fuel Jet Recommended Ret.
50 .037 .022 0
60 .039 .024 1
70 .041 .026 1-2
80 .043 .028 2-3

Dry NOS
Shot Size N2O Jet Fuel Jet Recommended Ret.
40 .034 .044 0
50 .032 .042 1
60 .034 .042 1-2
70 .041 .036 2-3

Zex Kit
Shot Size N2O Jet Fuel Jet Zex Retard Setting
55 32 36 0
65 35 34 2
75 38 32 4

_____________________________________
Can an Auto Tranny handle a 55 shot?

Auto trannies take better advantage of N2O than manuals since it shifts faster and you don't have to lift between gears, But keep in mind that you are still spraying when the tranny is shifting and could cause flooding and maybe even a blown engine. An auto tranny should easily handle 55HP of extra power; if anything, the torque converter isn't in question, rather the clutches/bands in the first two forward gears. Nevertheless, you SHOULD have NO problems with the 55HP dry setup

______________________________________
How much Horse Power gains will I see with N20?

The shot is equivalent to the Horse Power gain. 55shot=55hp (although it's not exact, that's the main idea). So if you went with a 75 shot of N20 than you would expect a 75 HP increase NOW this is different with certain systems dry kits tend to rate the HP at the Flywheel and not at the wheels

_______________________________________
Where do I mount my switch?

Well, if it's a standard Zex kit you have an endless amount of locations. I've seen people mount all their switches by the ebrake. I also see people cut a piece of ABS Plastic and mount them in that pocket down by the drink holders (Si version). You also could mount in that change draw like you said. In that location you can not close the drawer unless the switch is completely off (Safer). There really is no end to the locations. Dave on the other hand mounted his PROUDLY right next to the Sunroof button and mirror adjustment button (sorry no pics). As far as keeping your hands on the wheel, just learn to launch with it armed in first gear and everything should be fine.

_______________________________________
What should I run my Fuel psi at for a Zex 65-75 shot?

For a 75 shot I would run the PSI at 44 with line off. That would put your idle psi at about 41 idle psi is measured with line on of course). I actually ran my psi at 51 with line off. But was running real rich. I dyno'ed it at 44 psi with line off and the air/fuel was right on. Remember it's better to run rich then lean. And with a dry system you need the psi up higher than normal

____________________
I have a high milage engine can I run Nitrous?

yes you can,, but it is recommended that you do a compression check to see where your engine stands then take every safety percaution and I personally would not recommend over a 50 shot

____________________
Average Prices for the kits new and used…

Kit New Used up to 6 months +6 months
Zex 500.00 400.00 250.00-300.00 max
NOS 5122 500.00 350.00 200.00-300.00 max
NOS WET 600.00 400.00 300.00-350.00 max
NX 550.00 400.00 350.00
Venom 1100.00 700.00 450.00
Purge Kit 100.00 90.00 75.00
Bottle Heater NOS 100.00 90.00 75.00
Bottle Opener NOS 190.00 100.00 75.00
N2O 10lb bottle 150.00 100.00 100.00
Clutch 300-600.00 Never buy What are you stupid

Summit Pricing and Part Number for Window Switch

#MSD-8956 RPM Window Activation Switch = $76.95
#MSD-8744 RPM Modules 4000-4800 = $20.69
#MSD-8748 RPM Modules 8000-8800 = $20.69
#MSD-8961 MSD High Current Relay DPST = $25.95 TOTAL = $148.28

________________________________________
What kit is better, Zex or NOS DRY , and what’s the difference?

This is almost about personal preference they BOTH do the same thing and they are both DRY systems. The NOS kit is known to produce more horsepower since it is seemed to be rated at Wheel HP in stead of zex’s Flywheel HP. As for the differences, Zex is a lot easier to install it is VERY user friendly and relies on a WOT voltage to activate. NOS dry takes a little longer to install and uses a mechanical switch to activate in WOT. The PRO’S of ZEX. Very easy to install Self contained Safe if instructions are followed CON’S of ZEX Low HP Electrical WOT activation Been known to have problems “could be due to install PRO’S of NOS DRY Higher HP Long lasting company and support Can be upgraded Mechanical WOT Switch CON’S of NOS DRY Takes longer to install

________________________________________
How do I determine if N2O is best for me??

Well you are going to have to think for a minute. Do I have the time to research this and make sure I do not blow up my engine? Do I really have the time to keep going and refilling my bottle. Can I control the erg to raise the shot with out taking the proper safety measures. If you answered yes then you might have be okay running N2O

___________________________________
From Payntech's post I was reading a post from a month ago about this that was turning into a pissing contest. So, I decided to start a new post. Tuning with an O2 sensor with nitrous is not as straight forward as tuning an NA car or a boosted car. This is mainly due to the fact that the percentage of oxygen per volume is higher with nitrous when compared to air. If you were to run the engine on straight nitrous your A/F would be very rich relative to an engine with the same volume of straight air. You must always remember that most A/F meters are calibrated for air and gasoline. A stochiometric mixture of 14.7 is only for gasoline with air at STP (Standard Temperature (60 deg F) and Pressure (29.92)). For instance, an engine in Denver can run a much leaner A/F ratio at both cruise (peak fuel economy and WOT due to the amount of oxygen in the air per volume. Stochiometric A/F ratios for other fuel/air combinations are different. Some A/F meters like the ECM lambda pro that we use for tuning have different settings for different fuels. We can configure the meter to read in Gas, Alcohol, Propane, or Diesel. Getting back to the subject at hand. When using nitrous you must always look at the ratio of motor power to nitrous power. For example, a 150 hp and a 300 hp engine will not require the same A/F with the same nitrous shot. Let say we are using a 75 hp shot on both, the 150 bhp engine would have a 2:1 ratio and the 300 bhp engine would have a 4:1 ratio. Using some basic assumptions for the example... the 150 bhp engine would run around 11:1 one nitrous and would want probably want 2 deg or more timing taken out of the engine. The 300 bhp engine would want to run around 11.8:1 and probably not need little if any retard. A good real word example is my hatchback with a B16A that makes around 195 bhp (160 whp) NA and around 270 bhp (220 whp) with a 75 shot of nitrous. We played with it on the dyno and it was happy around 11.0-11.2 A/F (Gasoline) with 2 degrees of timing pulled. I have also had 300 bhp V8 cars that like about the same tune with a 150 shot. The only other thing that I would like to add that is also mentioned in the FAQ section is that all kits are not the same and different manufactures rate their kits different ways. You must also always know what your bottle pressure is when tuning. I hope this helps with this issue. And as for the pissing contest most engines will make best power between 12:1 and 13.5:1 depending the combustion efficiency of the engine. ITR1416 is right in that an engine is not 100% efficient and needs to saturate the combustion with excess fuel in order to get the maximum burn. jon3k is right in that if you could produce an engine that could create a 100% burn at WOT, it would want a 14.7:1 A/F. Although jon3k is wrong in thinking that just because the engine is not showing signs of detonation under a leaner mixture that it is making better power. Honda will run very lean with out detonation, although they usually make best power around 13:1 A/F.

_______________________________

Replication or linking of this document is not permitted with out the explicit permission of civicsidude or RZR SHRP Si


Added Later
Reged: 09/29/00
Posts: 7393
Loc: D.C. Metro Area (Originally from Tampa)
Re: Nitrous Information """ PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING Re: civicsidude #1997499 - 02/20/03 03:13 PM (206.38.114.100) Edit Reply Quote


Originally Posted by JoeB16 Simple physics and logic dictate these conclusions.
What say you? Electricity, by its nature, flows along the path of least resistance.
What does this mean exactly?
It means that, generally speaking, multiple grounds such as the BOSCH +4 and Zex plugs are useless.
Why?
Simple. A. terminal B. ceramic insulation C. center electrode D. gap E. ground electrode Say this spark plug has multiple grounded electrodes, like a +4. Now say, it is in an engine and is about to fire. The spark energy flows down the center electrode, out into the gap and onto the closest (remember "path of least resistance"? ground. This pattern will then repeat over and over for the entire life of the spark plug. That means the spark will hit the same ground EVERY time unless the grounding becomes damaged or so corroded its proximity to the center electrode is no longer enough to make it the least restrictive path for the electricity.
In that case it will move onto one of the other grounds. And that brings us to the only plus of having multiple grounded electrodes.
Fact of the matter is though, unless you dont plan replacing your plugs between 100K mile intervals you will never need the extra grounds. This is one of the reasons why cars advertise "no tune ups before the first 100K miles".
Personally, because I run nitrous, I change my plugs with every oil change. The same goes for platinum and iridium plugs. These dont offer better performance.
They just last longer. Another "100K mile tune up" deal.

Under normal driving conditions the center electrode made out of these harder materials will, of course last longer.
Because as we all know its so costly to change spark plugs at 60K miles, this is a must have, right? Pfff.
The ONLY reason why dealers recommend these plugs and why manufacturers put them in their cars is for that reasons and that reason alone.


Now, for high compression, turbo, and or N20 applications PLATNUM AND IRIDIUM plugs ARE NOT GOOD.
The center electrodes will actually crap out much faster then your standard core electrodes under those conditions, especially N20 applications. I
ve seen many a nitrous'd car running Denzos pop a plug. Trust me on this one. And for the record ZEX SUCKS ***!!!! Yes, thats right. ESPECIALLY their spark plugs.
How do I know this?
I bought a set. Not only are they 2X as expensive as the NGKs I use now the crapped out on me. Three sub 15 second runs on brand new Zex plugs (on just a 50 shot mind you) resulted in one SEVERLY melted #3 plug. And I mean SEVERLY.
All 3 ground electrodes were carbon coated, the center electrode AND the protective ceramic coating were melted and vaporized completely through. Thankfully there was no engine damage, but thats not the point.
For a full year after that I ran the EXACT SAME set up with my NGKs, and had NEVER had a problem. Not once.

Whats that mean?
Its obviously not a mechanical or installation problem with the nitrous or fuel injection, rather its solely the fault of the plug. PIECE OF **** Plus Zex plugs are made in France.

That should tell you enough. Oh, and what do I reccomend for Nitrous and turbo applications? NGK-BKR7E (8E's for apps that call for 2 steps colder over stock for Type RRRRRRRRRRs) thats what. 2 bucks each (high end) and are t3h b3st.

So there you have it folks.
Special Thanks to Steve & Dave my Nawwwwwws buddies for life.

Bbasso

BWaaahhhhhhhaaaahhhhhahaaa NOS owned you more then once

v-attack

iTrader: (1)

Marc, that post is too longgggggggggggggggg


Modified by v-attack at 8:52 PM 10/12/2004

GRAVEDIGGER

lots of good info, props to you for the write-up.

Black R

.....yeah that post was LOOOONG.

Now is it ok for me to spray into itb's with some crazy toda camz?

BolivianDc2

nice post

Chris F

Repost, BAN!

Just kidding!!! Did you add this to the Wiki yet? http://info.honda-tech.com

MonkeyManStunna

nice post man...

Orange Goats

for all that.

Cosworth

Did you install NOS in your Xterra!?! Hurry up!

Opie

Big bottles!

Shank6510

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BWaaahhhhhhhaaaahhhhhahaaa NOS owned you more then once </TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed.

Stunna BEN

love this thead

Opie

Opie, who wants to spray while auto x'ing

Seedc2

iTrader: (1)

naaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwzzzzzzzzz

nice n2o post

Bryce

most informative write up i've seen here on N20

blykins

Awesome info. I needed this info b/c i'm running a built ITR motor w/ 11.5:1, Toda B cams, Eagle rods, etc., and I have a NOS dry setup and plan on getting a digital ignition. I hope to get 200whp N/A then maybe 50+shot and be tuned for on bottle and off bottle.

Dr. EKology

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Opie, who wants to spray while auto x'ing </TD></TR></TABLE>

That poor R is going to need a hell of a lot more than some 'spray' to haul your *** around the course.

H.A.R.T B18C1EG6

iTrader: (1)

Holy dam.... that is some great info on N20. I am thinking of spraying and this post helped a lot.....

Jon D

This is now in the FAQ it wasn't already

Good chit Marc, very nice write-up......even if NOS is for ricers yO

ILUVTEC

Marc, the 'mover needs NOS!

RTW DC2R

nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

RobbieG35

Good post!

Archived

BlackRocket

awesome post man

People_Mover

You all are a bunch of ********

No, the Xterra doesn't have a NOS. Not yet