00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG!
02-15-2007, 08:00 AM
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00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG!
This thread is ridiculously long! If you don't have the time, just scroll thru for the pictures 
I will try to make this a time-line and keep it updated until the end.
As most of you know my Integra is no longer my daily driver, I had a 90 Accord and recently picked up a 94 Accord to take on the 90+mile a day commute. My Integra has been sitting in the garage, hanging out until she's ready to be driven, for the past 1.5 years. She sits with just about 123,000 miles.
Saturday, February 10, 2007: My friends and I have been planning a trip to Delaware to see a good friend of ours. We planned on rocking our Accords up there, but at the last couple of hours my friends had decided we were gonna take the nice cars. I had some maintenance to do to the teg before I was to make a trip like that. So I headed down to the dealership and bought new plugs/wires/oil filter, then to Autozone to grab some oil. Get home, replace plugs/wires, change oil, and give it a quick bath.
I meet up with my friends at the gas station, fill up and drive to Delaware.
Uneventful trip up there, partied all night, myself and one of my friends decided to leave early Sunday morning.
Sunday, February 11, 2007: My friend(white teg^) wake up around 0730 and take off. Hit up McDonald's breakfast on the way out and start the drive back to VA.
As I merged off of 50E onto to I495S, the CEL started flashing
. Immediately shut it down then merged over onto the shoulder. Popped the hood, got out, checked for anything out of the ordinary... Got back in the car and checked the CEL.
Code 71 - Cylinder 1 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
Get back out and check for spark with a screwdriver in Cyl 1 plug wire, got spark. Next I take out cyl 1 spark plug
A bit concerned, I send my friend out to find a parts store to get a spark plug, a magnet, and a spark plug socket(only had a deep 17mm). I sit around and contemplate my options....and take some pics.
Friend gets back, take the magnet and stick it down the spark plug tube, hoping I can come out with the piece of the plug. No luck
, put the new spark plug in, reset the ECU, and have my friend start her up. Runs like utter ***! Something is def not right, shut it down and get on the phone.
Finally my insurance in company finds a tow company that will tow it the 60-70 miles back to my house. Unfortunately the company is out of the USAA network so I have to foot the bill in cash.. No biggie. Bills Custom Towing finally shows up with a flat bed tow rig. Load the car and lead him back to my place.
Once back at my house, we unload the car, and stuff her back into her home. Get out the compression tester......215,215,215,0 Absolutely no compression in cylinder 1.
The brand new plug had failed in 284 miles.
Beer drinking the rest of the night. My friend that stayed up in DE finally came home and stopped by the house on the way home. Spoke with him about the problem, told him the story. His opinion(mechanic @ Honda) was that it shouldn't have happened, and that the plug might have been defective. I call the parts guy @ Honda (another friend) and he jokingly tells me to sue Honda In reality he tells me the same as the mechanic.
Monday, February 12, 2007: Go to work, give my mechanic friend a call, he says that he has spoken to all the seasoned mechanics and they all say that its possible for a plug to break, but it shouldn't happen with that few of miles. They also say that pre-ignition can cause this, gave me a website to check out and the pic for pre-ignition didn't look anything like my plug.
Pre-ignition: Ignition of the air/fuel mixture prior to its timed ignition by a spark from the spark plug is referred to as "pre-ignition". This can be caused by a hot spot in the combustion chamber, improper timing, too hot a spark plug, low octane fuel, too lean an air/fuel mixture, or engine overeating.
He also said that it could be caused by quenching.
Quenching: To understand quenching and how it is reduced it is first necessary to review the basic purpose of the spark plug is to ignite the air fuel mixture in the combustion chamber. To do this your vehicle ignition system generates tens of thousands of volts to jump the gap between the center and ground electrodes. However it is good to know that it is not the actual electricity that ignites the air fuel mixture, it is the heat energy generated by that electricity or spark. Therefore when you are creating the spark you want as much of the heat from that spark to be used to ignite the air fuel mixture and not have the heat from that spark be re-absorbed by the center and ground electrodes. Thus each manufacturer uses a variety of designs(cut back ground electrodes, U grooves in the ground electrode, V-grooves in the center electrode, fine wire center and ground electrodes, tapered or beveled cut ground electrodes, etc.) all to try to reduce quenching by reducing the contact(surface) area between the electrodes and the flame nucleus.
After that I told him to talk to the service manager and ask him to give me a call when he has some time.
Service Manager gives me a call. We go thru the story, he asks me how many miles and do I have anything internally done to the car. I answer no, he say that he spoke to his District Rep, and they both agree that I should talk this up with Honda. They give me the number to call and say if I need anything to just give them a call.
I call Honda and tell them the story, to try and keep it short they tell me that the car needs to go into the dealership to be torn down and checked. I call the Service Manager back and let him know, he is more than helpful trying to get the car down there. I tell him before I bring the car I would like to bring the plugs in to be looked at.
Wednesday, February 14, 2007: Taking advantage of being snowed out of work, a friend and I took the plugs down to the dealership. Hung out and bs'd with my friends, waiting for the head mechanic to come over and take a look. In the back of my head I'm expecting this guy to come over, take them out of the boxes and say your car is a piece of ****, stop wasting my fakking time.
Head mechanic finally comes over, takes each individual plug and examines it with a couple of different magnify glasses Goes back and forth making sure not to confuse the plugs. After about 10 minutes of the magnify glass he leaves and returns with a voltmeter. He checks to make sure that each plug is/was working correctly.. they all were. He then goes back to the magnify glasses.
Finally, he turns to me and says that he has absolutely no issues in saying that the plug is indeed defective. He said that I really need to bring the car in and have them tear it down to see whats wrong with it. He said that the damage might not be to just the valve/s, it could be to the piston/cylinder wall. Without tearing it down they wouldn't know. But he did insist that this was not something I/car could have done, it was definitely the plug!
So, my plans are to take off of work next Wednesday and tow the car to the dealership. My friend said that I am more than welcome to sit and watch him tear down the car. I will have plenty of pictures of the process. I will keep this thread updated....
***UPDATE***
Tuesday, February 21, 2007 Thanks to EG6-DC2, tow truck arrived at my house at approx 2045, loaded the teg, and hauled it to the dealership.
Wednesday, February 22, 2007 I arrive at the dealership around 0800 and we get started.
HYTECH FTMFW!!!!!
MUGEN FTMFW!!!!!!!!
Head off....block....
Head
Honda was called and told the problems, dealership has a little work to do on there end. Hopefully hear back within a couple of days...
Tuesday, February 27, 2007 Just got off the phone with mechanic friend. Seems the Warranty/Service manager of the Honda and Acura dealerships came down, took some pictures, talked to the head mechanic and said he sees no problem with getting it fixed on there bill. Said they would more than likely go after NGK. Said he would more than likely give the yay/nay tomorrow. Supposedly this guy is known to be a poopoo head.
I find myself chuckling over the fact that all these big wigs are looking at a 00 ITR with everything from the front seats back stripped out of it, and a AP rollbar.
Friend said that the guy hesitated and was eyeing my mugen intake...
*tightens crossed fingers*
Modified by walker111 at 3:54 PM 2/21/2007
Modified by walker111 at 5:11 PM 2/27/2007
I will try to make this a time-line and keep it updated until the end.As most of you know my Integra is no longer my daily driver, I had a 90 Accord and recently picked up a 94 Accord to take on the 90+mile a day commute. My Integra has been sitting in the garage, hanging out until she's ready to be driven, for the past 1.5 years. She sits with just about 123,000 miles.
Saturday, February 10, 2007: My friends and I have been planning a trip to Delaware to see a good friend of ours. We planned on rocking our Accords up there, but at the last couple of hours my friends had decided we were gonna take the nice cars. I had some maintenance to do to the teg before I was to make a trip like that. So I headed down to the dealership and bought new plugs/wires/oil filter, then to Autozone to grab some oil. Get home, replace plugs/wires, change oil, and give it a quick bath.
I meet up with my friends at the gas station, fill up and drive to Delaware.
Uneventful trip up there, partied all night, myself and one of my friends decided to leave early Sunday morning.
Sunday, February 11, 2007: My friend(white teg^) wake up around 0730 and take off. Hit up McDonald's breakfast on the way out and start the drive back to VA.
As I merged off of 50E onto to I495S, the CEL started flashing
. Immediately shut it down then merged over onto the shoulder. Popped the hood, got out, checked for anything out of the ordinary... Got back in the car and checked the CEL. Code 71 - Cylinder 1 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
Get back out and check for spark with a screwdriver in Cyl 1 plug wire, got spark. Next I take out cyl 1 spark plug
A bit concerned, I send my friend out to find a parts store to get a spark plug, a magnet, and a spark plug socket(only had a deep 17mm). I sit around and contemplate my options....and take some pics.
Friend gets back, take the magnet and stick it down the spark plug tube, hoping I can come out with the piece of the plug. No luck
, put the new spark plug in, reset the ECU, and have my friend start her up. Runs like utter ***! Something is def not right, shut it down and get on the phone. Finally my insurance in company finds a tow company that will tow it the 60-70 miles back to my house. Unfortunately the company is out of the USAA network so I have to foot the bill in cash.. No biggie. Bills Custom Towing finally shows up with a flat bed tow rig. Load the car and lead him back to my place.
Once back at my house, we unload the car, and stuff her back into her home. Get out the compression tester......215,215,215,0 Absolutely no compression in cylinder 1.
The brand new plug had failed in 284 miles.Beer drinking the rest of the night. My friend that stayed up in DE finally came home and stopped by the house on the way home. Spoke with him about the problem, told him the story. His opinion(mechanic @ Honda) was that it shouldn't have happened, and that the plug might have been defective. I call the parts guy @ Honda (another friend) and he jokingly tells me to sue Honda
In reality he tells me the same as the mechanic.Monday, February 12, 2007: Go to work, give my mechanic friend a call, he says that he has spoken to all the seasoned mechanics and they all say that its possible for a plug to break, but it shouldn't happen with that few of miles. They also say that pre-ignition can cause this, gave me a website to check out and the pic for pre-ignition didn't look anything like my plug.
Pre-ignition: Ignition of the air/fuel mixture prior to its timed ignition by a spark from the spark plug is referred to as "pre-ignition". This can be caused by a hot spot in the combustion chamber, improper timing, too hot a spark plug, low octane fuel, too lean an air/fuel mixture, or engine overeating.
He also said that it could be caused by quenching.
Quenching: To understand quenching and how it is reduced it is first necessary to review the basic purpose of the spark plug is to ignite the air fuel mixture in the combustion chamber. To do this your vehicle ignition system generates tens of thousands of volts to jump the gap between the center and ground electrodes. However it is good to know that it is not the actual electricity that ignites the air fuel mixture, it is the heat energy generated by that electricity or spark. Therefore when you are creating the spark you want as much of the heat from that spark to be used to ignite the air fuel mixture and not have the heat from that spark be re-absorbed by the center and ground electrodes. Thus each manufacturer uses a variety of designs(cut back ground electrodes, U grooves in the ground electrode, V-grooves in the center electrode, fine wire center and ground electrodes, tapered or beveled cut ground electrodes, etc.) all to try to reduce quenching by reducing the contact(surface) area between the electrodes and the flame nucleus.
After that I told him to talk to the service manager and ask him to give me a call when he has some time.
Service Manager gives me a call. We go thru the story, he asks me how many miles and do I have anything internally done to the car. I answer no, he say that he spoke to his District Rep, and they both agree that I should talk this up with Honda. They give me the number to call and say if I need anything to just give them a call.
I call Honda and tell them the story, to try and keep it short they tell me that the car needs to go into the dealership to be torn down and checked. I call the Service Manager back and let him know, he is more than helpful trying to get the car down there. I tell him before I bring the car I would like to bring the plugs in to be looked at.
Wednesday, February 14, 2007: Taking advantage of being snowed out of work, a friend and I took the plugs down to the dealership. Hung out and bs'd with my friends, waiting for the head mechanic to come over and take a look. In the back of my head I'm expecting this guy to come over, take them out of the boxes and say your car is a piece of ****, stop wasting my fakking time.
Head mechanic finally comes over, takes each individual plug and examines it with a couple of different magnify glasses
Goes back and forth making sure not to confuse the plugs. After about 10 minutes of the magnify glass he leaves and returns with a voltmeter. He checks to make sure that each plug is/was working correctly.. they all were. He then goes back to the magnify glasses.Finally, he turns to me and says that he has absolutely no issues in saying that the plug is indeed defective. He said that I really need to bring the car in and have them tear it down to see whats wrong with it. He said that the damage might not be to just the valve/s, it could be to the piston/cylinder wall. Without tearing it down they wouldn't know. But he did insist that this was not something I/car could have done, it was definitely the plug!
So, my plans are to take off of work next Wednesday and tow the car to the dealership. My friend said that I am more than welcome to sit and watch him tear down the car. I will have plenty of pictures of the process. I will keep this thread updated....
***UPDATE***
Tuesday, February 21, 2007 Thanks to EG6-DC2, tow truck arrived at my house at approx 2045, loaded the teg, and hauled it to the dealership.
Wednesday, February 22, 2007 I arrive at the dealership around 0800 and we get started.
HYTECH FTMFW!!!!!
MUGEN FTMFW!!!!!!!!
Head off....block....
Head
Honda was called and told the problems, dealership has a little work to do on there end. Hopefully hear back within a couple of days...
Tuesday, February 27, 2007 Just got off the phone with mechanic friend. Seems the Warranty/Service manager of the Honda and Acura dealerships came down, took some pictures, talked to the head mechanic and said he sees no problem with getting it fixed on there bill. Said they would more than likely go after NGK. Said he would more than likely give the yay/nay tomorrow. Supposedly this guy is known to be a poopoo head.
I find myself chuckling over the fact that all these big wigs are looking at a 00 ITR with everything from the front seats back stripped out of it, and a AP rollbar.
Friend said that the guy hesitated and was eyeing my mugen intake...
*tightens crossed fingers*
Modified by walker111 at 3:54 PM 2/21/2007
Modified by walker111 at 5:11 PM 2/27/2007
02-15-2007, 08:09 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (walker111)
Lets hope for the best dude. Seems like you're being treated really really well though. Maybe they're just afraid you'll try to steal their snow cones
Seems like you're being treated really really well though. Maybe they're just afraid you'll try to steal their snow cones
02-15-2007, 08:12 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Erik95LS)
Thanks I highly doubt this will be resolved before the 11th, but if it is the car will def be there!!
Dealership is treating me great! I'm very good friends with a lot of the poeple there and have spent thousands of dollars in parts there. They are also probably afraid of the stealing of snow cones!
I highly doubt this will be resolved before the 11th, but if it is the car will def be there!!Dealership is treating me great! I'm very good friends with a lot of the poeple there and have spent thousands of dollars in parts there. They are also probably afraid of the stealing of snow cones!
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02-15-2007, 08:13 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (BlueR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nothing that a sleeved 84mm block and a stage 5 port/polish head wouldn't fix 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha, if honda is footing the bill, it will be fixed however they deem necessary.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Haha, if honda is footing the bill, it will be fixed however they deem necessary.
02-15-2007, 08:15 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (BlueR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nothing that a sleeved 84mm block and a stage 5 port/polish head wouldn't fix </TD></TR></TABLE>
oh geez...
i can just hear this conversation "your not gonna believe what i just got in" - Tran
ROfLmAOffffff
</TD></TR></TABLE>oh geez...
i can just hear this conversation "your not gonna believe what i just got in" - Tran
ROfLmAOffffff
02-15-2007, 08:19 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Jon D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh geez...
i can just hear this conversation "your not gonna believe what i just got in" - Tran
ROfLmAOffffff </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah that is about the way he starts everything.
oh geez...
i can just hear this conversation "your not gonna believe what i just got in" - Tran
ROfLmAOffffff
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah that is about the way he starts everything.
02-15-2007, 08:28 AM
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Sorry to hear Jim. I can't do much, but let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I'll buy you a beer or something heh.
Hey, I heard there is a Sonics in Fredericksburg ... ?
Hey, I heard there is a Sonics in Fredericksburg ... ?
02-15-2007, 08:57 AM
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That's really cool that you had good friends, both on the trip to DE and at the dealership, to guide you through this stressful ordeal. Had you had no "connections" at the dealership, what you were thinking in the back of your head would have been the most likely outcome.
Hope everything works out and they find the source of the problem AND foot the bill for any repairs.
Hope everything works out and they find the source of the problem AND foot the bill for any repairs.
02-15-2007, 09:15 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (walker111)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ...but at the last couple of hours my friends had decided we were gonna take the nice cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Gave into tempation huh??
Gave into tempation huh??
02-15-2007, 09:21 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Utilitarian)
Thanks guys!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's really cool that you had good friends, both on the trip to DE and at the dealership, to guide you through this stressful ordeal. Had you had no "connections" at the dealership, what you were thinking in the back of your head would have been the most likely outcome.
Hope everything works out and they find the source of the problem AND foot the bill for any repairs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, my friends are just like family! I would like to think that if this were to happen to anyone the same results would take place. Maybe its because the people there know that I'm not trying to take advantage of the system..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Utilitarian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Gave into tempation huh?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
The friend that brought up taking the "other" cars is the same mechanic doing the work on the car. He apologized that night for insisting on taking the cars. I cant blame anyone but the defective plug for this. If it wouldnt have happened sunday it wouldve happen somewhere down the road. I'm sure in the back of his mind he feels like crap, but **** happens
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's really cool that you had good friends, both on the trip to DE and at the dealership, to guide you through this stressful ordeal. Had you had no "connections" at the dealership, what you were thinking in the back of your head would have been the most likely outcome.
Hope everything works out and they find the source of the problem AND foot the bill for any repairs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, my friends are just like family! I would like to think that if this were to happen to anyone the same results would take place. Maybe its because the people there know that I'm not trying to take advantage of the system..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Utilitarian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Gave into tempation huh??
</TD></TR></TABLE>The friend that brought up taking the "other" cars is the same mechanic doing the work on the car. He apologized that night for insisting on taking the cars. I cant blame anyone but the defective plug for this. If it wouldnt have happened sunday it wouldve happen somewhere down the road. I'm sure in the back of his mind he feels like crap, but **** happens
02-15-2007, 09:35 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Trellis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trellis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So is the car still under warranty? </TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, 123,000 miles, def not under warranty.
lol, 123,000 miles, def not under warranty.
02-15-2007, 09:37 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (walker111)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lol, 123,000 miles, def not under warranty.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So what are they charging you to tear down the motor and find the problem.....?
lol, 123,000 miles, def not under warranty.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So what are they charging you to tear down the motor and find the problem.....?
02-15-2007, 09:42 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Trellis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trellis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
soooo the dealer is doing the tear down for free? </TD></TR></TABLE>
At this point its kinda wierd. I spoke to Honda and they want to hear from the dealership. I've shown the plugs to the dealership and they say bring the car in so we can figure out whats wrong with it. Then I will go back to Honda and tell them that the car is there, the damage is this, and the dealership says the plug was defective. Then, Honda will make a decision on what they are going to pay for, if anything...
soooo the dealer is doing the tear down for free? </TD></TR></TABLE>
At this point its kinda wierd. I spoke to Honda and they want to hear from the dealership. I've shown the plugs to the dealership and they say bring the car in so we can figure out whats wrong with it. Then I will go back to Honda and tell them that the car is there, the damage is this, and the dealership says the plug was defective. Then, Honda will make a decision on what they are going to pay for, if anything...
02-15-2007, 09:43 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Trellis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trellis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So what are they charging you to tear down the motor and find the problem.....?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think my friend told me that I might have to pay 90 bucks right off the bat..
So what are they charging you to tear down the motor and find the problem.....?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think my friend told me that I might have to pay 90 bucks right off the bat..
02-15-2007, 09:46 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (walker111)
Thankfully you used OEM plugs and Honda is being cool so far...hopefully they end up fixing it for free because of a defective plug. Good Luck.
BTW...is this an acura or honda dealer?
BTW...is this an acura or honda dealer?
02-15-2007, 09:49 AM
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Re: 00-1070 Issues, EXTREMELY LONG! (Trellis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trellis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thankfully you used OEM plugs and Honda is being cool so far...hopefully they end up fixing it for free because of a defective plug. Good Luck.
BTW...is this an acura or honda dealer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I always use OEM Parts. Hopefully Honda will lend a hand in fixing this.
I'm being treated great at a Honda dealership!
BTW...is this an acura or honda dealer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I always use OEM Parts. Hopefully Honda will lend a hand in fixing this.
I'm being treated great at a Honda dealership!
