yazo

im in desparate help. i have a 1995 integra (obd1) and i was installing a new distributor as my old one went. with the new one i got a rebuilt coil. new ignitor. new cap. and new rotor.

i was installing it myself and i lined up the grooves and it fit on...now i put the cap on and started the car up but it diddnt start...didnt really turn over either.just spinning.. so i called my boy and he said that the rotor on the distrib shud be facing cylinder 1...i was confused as to how i would do this cause u cant turn the rotor...what i did was crank the engine with the cap off so i can see the rotor turn...it had to do this a few times because the first time it went around too far...the next time i cranked it looked good so i put the distrib back on and started it up..sounded like it was going but then nothing but spinning....now the next time i took the cap off and cranked the engine to get the rotor in place..now i was hearing a wierd metal sounding like scraping sound when the rotor was facing all the way down so i got scared and stoped and decided im gonna tow my car tomrow.

my question to u is did i damage anyhitn in my engine? bent valve or anyhting cause that sound scared me..sounded like metal or something..or was it just ignition spark that had nowhere to go cause the cap was off??

please offer your advice. im really panicking right now.

t_lager

If your car isnt turning over, just spinning, it could be your starter gone bad.

LoseRPunKx182

do u have the firing order right?

34
12

yazo

the starter is fine..has just been replaced. if the starter was bad then nothing would happen at all.

the firing order is correct.

any advice on what that metal sound is? any is there any way i could have damaged the engine by trying to turn it over like this?

LL2009

are you getting any spark?

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

You can't put your rotor on wrong, and once it's on it doesn't matter which cylinder the rotor is facing.

Did you put your sparkplug wires back in the correct order? 1,3,4,2? LoseRPunKx182 little schematic shows how the wires should be oredered around the diz.

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yazo

when u say 1,3,4,2 what does that mean on the head? i thought the head was 4321

LL2009

on the head is 4,3,2,1 on the distributor is
3 4
1 2

yazo

yeah the firing order is correct.

maybe the cylinder 1 is at the bottom and the spark needs to touch it and its too far away so all im hearing is spark spark? i put a whole new distrib on so its out of whack. even if the rotor faces 1 the 1 cylinder may not be at TDC right >

LL2009

if you car is off timing it wont start .

txracer

did you put the allen screw that holds the rotor to the shaft? mine fell out while i was driving and all it did was spit and sputter and back fire nonstop, and finally it just spun but didnt spin the rotor

LL2009

yeah you realy need that screw , that keeps the rotor from going in and out its got to stay in one position . i recomend you get a new cap and rotor and see what happens.

LL2009

oh and make shure it didnt damage anything inside the distributor like the coil or wires .

txracer

yup that screw is a pain in the *** if it falls out, esp while driving , i dont think it would damage anything mine just fell to the bottem of the cap and when i took the cap off it fell so thats how i knew, btw if it is the screw get the L shaped allen keys i got the socket wrench kind and that was even more of a pain in the ***

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yazo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the cylinder 1 is at the bottom and the spark needs to touch it and its too far away so all im hearing is spark spark? i put a whole new distrib on so its out of whack. even if the rotor faces 1 the 1 cylinder may not be at TDC right &gt;</TD></TR></TABLE>

Impossible - you can't install your distributor wrong, unless of course you go ahead and remove your valve cover and timing belt and decide to put the cams wherever you please - but you didn't so don't worry about that.

secondly you would never hear the 'spark spark'


there are 2 tabs on the distributor that fit into notches on your intake cam - the tabs are offcenter so that it is impossible to install the the distributor incorrectly (if these tabs weren't lined up, theres no way you could bolt the distributor back on to your engine)

txracer finally said something intelligent and I'd agree here to make sure your rotor screw is in the rotor. This phillips head screw is made if probably the softest metal on earth and is notorios for having the head strip...

yazo

took it to acura

i took it there to simply install a whole NEW different distributor because i tried installing a new rebuilt coil one on my car and i had no luck. the rotor was facing cylinder 3 and it wudnt start at all....i tried cranking the car with the distrib cap off so taht the rotor wud face cylinder 1 and then put the cap back on and it just cranks and then spins....so i took it to acura east in ajax.


Now. Acura calls me and says that my motor is severely damaged. im like WTF? it was running before. and all i did was try to start it and it never started, therefore how can my engine be fucked.

they said that my intake cam is off 220 degrees and so if they start the car my car engine will break because they said that the intake valves and the exhaust valves are open at the same time.

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? my timing belt never snapped..i was driving the car perfectly fine untill a few days ago when it just cut out on me and wud only start after being cooled off....so like everyone on here that had issues i replaced the whole new distributor with new coil and ignitor...its a whole new one so i cudnt just put it back on how i took it off.......all i did was take the old distributor off and replaced the WHOLE assembly with a new one and tried startting it with the rotor facing cylinder 3 and it never started..thats y i took it to acura so they can align and set the timing (rotor face cylinder 1) so that the car wud start....now they say that my engine needs to be replaced and they cannot continue....PLEASSEE help me on this, are they bullshitting or what?

what does it mean when they say that the intake cam is 220 degrees off timing and its irreversable and that if they start the engine it will run for 3 sec and then break something inside cause the exhaust valves are open at the same time...

they are acting like i towed the car there already broken when it was clearly running fine, no belt snapping or anything! just stalled out. all i did was crank it over numerously.

any advice fellas? he told me to go in the morning so the tech can explain the issue more to me

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

Well it sounds to me that they may be telling the truth here.

You said that before you replaced the diz, that you could only start the car after it had cooled off, but that's not really a symptom of a bad diz. In my experience it will either work or it wont.

I think your timing belt has slipped over your cam gear(s) and that would be caused by a failed tensioner or failed timing belt (the teeth may have broken off) - that would explain why your intake cam is way off and probably why your car wont start.

Ask the tech to show you the cams with the valve cover off so you can see the alignment issues - it shoud only take them a minute to take it off and show you. if yor timing is off , then yes, your motor could get messed up - valves are not supposed to hit the pistons and if the timing's off that could happen.

Find out what the tech says. I think you'll probably end up having to replace your timing belt & tensioner. Then make sure your timing is set properly. Once that is done - do a leak down test to see if your valves are bent.

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

--
some reason my post above got reposted down here - so I deleted it - oops.


Modified by Tim2179 at 11:01 AM 8/31/2005

yazo

il try that tim. i havent gone there yet. but the thing is..the car would start up after a few minutes if it cooled off..so wudnt it be the coil that was slowly failing?....after the car cooled off..it wud drive perfectly fine, no popping or anything...no metal sounds...it wud just shut off like that. and i checked for spark and no spark.....

i had my alternator belt and fan belt and ac belt replaced a few days ago...cud the guy have messed anything up when he re installed these belts??

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

As far as I know there is no fan belt on an integra.

The 3 belts at the front (the driver's side) of your engine are the A/C, PS, and Alternator - and no - they have no effect on your timing.

The only belt that effects your timing is the timing belt - which synchronizes the cams and the crankshaft. Hopefully those metal sounds you're hearing are not valves hitting pistons.

Post again after you talk to the tech. Hopefully it wont be too bad.

If you get a chance to see your cam gears, have them turn the motor to TDC on cylinder 1 (they can turn the motor with a 19mm socket wrench on the crank pulley bolt right by the drivers side wheel) - at TDC, there will be 2 "UP" arrows pointing up on each cam gear and two notches will become aligned between the gears - however if your intake cam is off as much as they say it is - the up arrows and the notches wont line up.

95rippinrs

how many miles and do u know if it has ever had a timing belt done

yazo

tim...

i went by today and they said that the cam timing is off by at least 180 degrees and that there is a good chance that the valves are bent.

like u guys said i asked them wat if they take the timing belt off and re-align everything. they said that u can try that but if the valves are bent then the motor is toast.

i installed the distributor 180 degrees off by mistake..it still fit fine but not as SNUG as when i tried a few times later...after this i treid starting the car and i think that this reversed the timing....the car has not been running since i put the distributor on 180 degrees off...when i turn the key it turns and turns and i hear this clicking cud be metal type sound...so maybe thats the pistons hitting the valves...

i dont htink its worth 400 dollars to try and see if the valves are bent...sounds like they are, unless ther is another way to check...they said taking the valve cover and removing the head to check will take labor too...

any ideas tim..does this make sense?

joncivicsi

Dude, this is CRAZY!!

I did the EXACT same thing 2 weeks ago. EXACTLY. I had a slight oil leak so i decided to replace the O ring on the dizzy $1.88 from honda.

Must have put the distributor back on wrong, and car wont start. Switched it, car still wont start. Kept trying all manner of things no start. I take it to my mechanic, he says the valves are all bent, everything is FUBAR!

Need to replace valves they say, well im freaked out and tell him to do it he tells me $1200.

Well he doesnt call me for like 3 days, and i get suspicious, so i called my acura dealer.

They told me taht my timming was most likey FUCKED, but there is no way the valves could be bent and this ******* is trying to **** me.

So, i confront mechanic, he contacts machine shop where they sent my head. Sure enough valves are not bent, they do a valve adjustment, i talk him into replacing my water pump, timming belt, and all the head seals, all for $1000.

Hopefully your valves are not bent, acura told me there is no possible way to bend them by doing what we did, it just needed to be retimmed.

Im not exactly sure that car is runing perfect, cause i barely bought it a week before. And havent been drvinvg it yet since it needs new tires.

jon!

LoseRPunKx182

how much did he say it could cost to fix ur cam timing?

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

Yazo, I have a few questions and hopefully you can get this taken care of. First, you can tell if the valves are bent without removing the head by doing a leakdown test - ask the dealer how much they charge for this - or tow the car to a shop that will give you a better price quote. You could do this test your self, with a leakdown gauge (around $70 on jegs.com) - but you will need access to an air compressor, so if you don't have these items you're probably better off having the shop do this test. What a leakdown test does is tests for leaks that are present when you valves do not seat all the way - a bent valve will not seat properly.

Here's how it's done:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A leakdown test is performed using an air supply regulated to 100psi with a pressure gauge near the fitting that goes into the spark plug hole.
Turn the crank such that the valves going to that cylinder are all closed. Turn on the 100psi air supply. Read the gauge.

100-97psi Excellent condition
96-93psi Good condition
92-89psi Okay, could use help
&lt;88psi time for a rebuild...

If you hear air leak noise coming out of the exhaust pipe, you have leaky exhaust valves. If you hear noise coming out of the intake, you have leaky intake valves. Noise coming out of your dipstick hole is bad rings. Bubbles coming out of your radiator filler hole is bad head gasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now that is the worst case scenario, but I thought about this and you may be ok. Some how, you say you have instaled you distributor 180 degrees off. How you did this I can't fathom b/c the notch the distributor tab fits into is off-center (the diz fits in the intake cam) - however you stated that the distributor does not fit snug - well if this is the case, the yes you probably did put it on 180 degrees off. Don't worry - take the diz off, spin the tab 180 degrees and then re-install. MAKE SURE THE DIZ SITS FLUSH AGAINST THE MOTOR. If you car still wont start there's a chance that diz is bad.

Now here's why I think your valves are not bent (this is based on the assumption your timing belt is ok). Even if you diz IS on upside down all this will do is fire the plugs on each cylinder at the wrong time (180 degrees wrong) thus your motor will not run. However, your cams and pistons are still moving properly - it's just that you diz is not firing when it's supposed to.

Next thing - have you ever taken you valve cover off? If not it's VERY easy to do. Grab your 10mm socket and take off the nuts on the valve cover, take out your spark plug wires and remove the cover. Now you should be able to see your cams. To make the next step easier, jack up the front driver's side of your car and get a 19mm socket and about a 6" extender. Make sure the car is in neutral. Look in that plastic wheel well cover about 8 inches towards the front of your car from the center of the axle - and you see that weird "hole" that looks like it has 6 "tabs" around it - your crank pulley is behind that and there is a bolt in the canter of it - stick your 19mm socket in there and proceed to turn it (don't worry - it aint coming off) this will turn your motor - continue turning the bolt until you see the 2 arrows on your cam gears point straight up - if these to arrows can be seen pointing up then you cams are in proper alignment.

I just wrote a bunch of stuff so I kinda lost track of stuff I said so I may edit this post, but for the most part you can use this info to find out if 1- your valves are bent and 2- if your timing is off.

If it helps do searches on honda-tech or team-integra.com for leakdown test, distributor installation, advance timing and you should find out what you need.


Modified by Tim2179 at 1:34 AM 9/2/2005