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Old 06-08-2005, 05:20 AM   #1
 
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Default ignition timing problem...

alright here is the situation. my motor is an itr head on gsr block, with obd-0 wiring, in a DA
With the distributor fully advanced, my motor is firing at 0 degrees. when the light flashes on the timing light, the white TDC mark is lined up with the mark on the cover.

I know it should be firing at 16 degrees BTDC, but I can't advance the distributor far enough to get there.
The car also doesn't advance when I'm at wot.
The car runs pretty well, good enough to daily drive but severely under powered.

yes I jumped the connector
Timing belt is on there right, cams and CS pulley are all lined up. my firing order is correct, 1,3,4,2. I've tried 3 different distributors, 8 different ECU's, and I rewired my entire car from dash to headlights. still the same problem



BEER IS OFFERED TO LOCALS THAT COME HELP!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: ignition timing problem... (G2Crash)

your sure the cam timing it right on? thats the only thing that could make this happen from what i know...
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Old 06-08-2005, 08:23 AM   #3
 
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Default Re: ignition timing problem... (G2Crash)

Make sure your car is at operating temp and idling at 750, make sure the timing light is connected to the #1 wire (nearest the pulleys), and move the distributer back to the center. Which line is at the pointer now while using your light? There should be 3 lines close to each other and a white line to the right that is used to make sure the crank is at TDC when setting Cam timing. You probably know all this but I can't think of anything else but to start from the beginning. Good luck.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:20 AM   #4
 
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ya, with the car off, the cams are lined up, and the pulley mark (the one by itself) is at the mark on the cover.

When it's running the light flashes on the white TDC mark fully advanced. with the distributor in the center it fires after TDC.

I know the t-belt is all lined up, but could it possibly be the wrong cam gear on the itr cam or something? I know the pulley is the right one for the block because I did a screw driver trick to make sure the piston was at the top when the mark was lined up. I"m so confused.... but I appreciate the replies
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:53 AM   #5
 
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Default Re: (G2Crash)

You know when you use the timing light, you aren't looking for the white mark anymore, you are looking at the 3 timing marks to the left of it right.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: (Sam92Teg)

yeah the white line is the tdc mark.. the other three are your timing marks.. i beleive two are red and the other ???
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:24 PM   #7
 
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Default Re: (HoUTX98GSR)

The red mark should be a @16 advanced not the white one. You use the white mark to get tdc lined up. I just did this on my 90 da.
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:11 PM   #8
 
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ya, that's the point, I know it's supposed to be at the 3 white marks, but I can't advance the distributor enough for it to get there. it only advances far enough to fire at TDC, that's my problem.

I can't advance the distributor any farther and I still have 16 degrees more to go to get to the 3 marks where it's supposed to be.

and everything I've listed above is what I've checked so far such as the ecu and stuff. I don't know why the dist. is messing up.

after replacing all these parts and going over everything it just all doesn't make sense, I don't see how it's firing wrong because from what I know intake cam, dist. and ecu is all that controlls ign. timing and I've went over them many times, and so has a lot of other people. everyone that's looked at the car has no idea what's wrong with it. Click the image to open in full size. thanks for helping guys, any more ideas?
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:20 PM   #9
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Start the engine. Hold the engine at 3,000 rpm with no load (A/T in (N) or (P) position, M/T in neutral) until the radiator fan comes on, then let it idle.

Ignition Timing:

Except VTEC
M/T: 16°±2°BTDC (RED) at 750 ±50 rpm in neutral
A/T: 16°±2°BTDC (RED) at 750 ±50 rpm in park or neutral

VTEC
16°±2°BTDC (RED) at 800 ±50 rpm in neutral

And it also notes that all electrical systems are off. But I'm sure youve tried this
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:22 PM   #10
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Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: ignition timing problem... (G2Crash)

What type of timing gun are u using fixed or adjustible? if you are using adjustible then you are looking for the TDC mark. If not then you are looking for the 3 marks on the pulley. If its adjustible put 16 on the gun and adjust DISt till u get to TDC mark on the pulley.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: ignition timing problem... (ITAIntegraLS)

Exactly....if you put the dial on the timing light to 16 degrees then the white mark will line up with the pointer. If you put the dial to 0 degrees then the red mark should line up with the pointer...
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Old 06-09-2005, 07:23 PM   #13
 
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I'm using a fixed timing gun without a dial on it. so I put the light on the pulley and I'm adjusting the distributor till I get to the 3 marks.

but then I run into my problem, I physically can't adjust the distributor far enough to make it to the 3 marks, with the distributor advanced as far as it will possibly go, I can only get it to fire on the TDC mark, no farther, I need to get it advanced farther but I can't and I don't know why.

am I making sense? I know I need to advance it to the 3 marks but I can't, the distributor is already fully advanced as far as it will go. so something in my motor or car isn't allowing me to adjust it as far as it's supposed to go.

this is what I'm trying to figure out, why can't I advance it as far as I need to?

something is throwing off the ign. timing and it's not dist. ecu, wire harness, or timing belt because that has all been checked

here's some other ideas. I have a b16 distributor on a gsr block/itr head, it's obd-0 components, could that be a problem

I have itr cams with supposed itr cam gears, could I have the wrong cam gears on there, could they be b16 cam gears or something.

the crankshaft pulley is lined up correct because I tested that with the screw driver trick.

I'm fresh out of ideas and as far as I know the distributor shouldn't be off like it is considering how the motor is put together right now because everything is on there correct.

I'm checking the timing correctly too, the car is warmed up, the idle is at 800, and the connector is jumped. it should be at the 3 marks but I can't get it there becuase the dist. is off.

I think I have went over basically everything but the distributor is still off.

are there other sensors that could throw off the timing? the crank angle sensor is in the dist. and I've tried other distributors. I don't have any vaccum leaks and my TPS and map are working fine too.

no Cel's, I don't know what could possibly be throwing thigns off.

my offer still stands for free beer for those locals guys that want to come take a look Click the image to open in full size.

and again I appreciate the replies thus far.
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:17 PM   #14
 
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bump
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Old 06-10-2005, 01:48 AM   #15
 
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Could it be that you crank pulley has sliped because the key that suppose to keep it from moving is not in? On 3 lines what is the first 1,2,3 line as in degrees?
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:00 AM   #16
 
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I can check the pulley again but it seems to be doing ok. and the second question I'm not sure what you mean...the 3 marks on the pulley? the first is 14 degrees, middle mark is 16, and the 3rd is 18, before TDC.
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Old 06-10-2005, 11:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: (G2Crash)

One more thing do you have it on Cyl 1 coil plug or on another cylinder?
It should be on the one closest to the cam gears.

Just Checking.
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Old 06-11-2005, 03:14 AM   #18
 
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yup, cyl #1
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Old 06-11-2005, 04:29 AM   #19
 
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Default Re: (G2Crash)

i'm not sure if this helps but i put on a gsr strut bar and it was sorta squishing my map sensor n there was no way i could line it up to match the 3 marks because it would always go to 0 degrees then i took the strut bar off n my map sensor was fine again then it went to the 3 marks.
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Old 06-12-2005, 04:27 AM   #20
 
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Default Re: (white2drgsr)

well that's something I could possibly look into.

I'm running a map sensor that bolts to the TB, and I extended the map plug from the firewall to the TB.

for those that don't know map sensors are on the firewall on older honda's....

anyways, I'm also running a Skunk 2 manifold with a BBK 70mm TB, the manifold is still at 64mm. would that mess anything up possibly?
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:25 AM   #21
 
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bump
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:35 AM   #22
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did you get this sorted??
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: ignition timing problem...

im sorta in the same boat as you, i have a gsr and severely under power.Like vtec not engaging, radiator fan wont come on so my tempt alway stay on cold.On cold days the car would crank and start but soon afterward die, I would have to crank it 1or sometime 2more time then the car would stay started but really low ilding,(around 300 or maybe less).I have people telling me either its my ECU(obd1 p72) or my Distributor,im out of idea here too since I had change my HG 2weeks ago and redo my timing since the previous f*cked it up!.

Keep us updated with this.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: ignition timing problem...

what distributor are you using
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: ignition timing problem...

gsr distributor.
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