GoodSkoolRevltn

I have been having an issue with hotstarting my car.
One time it was a hot morning and the vehicle just would not start.
All other times, i had to wait roughly 30-40 minutes after driving before the vehicle would start again.
Chassis is a dc2 with k20a2 swap

I have another dc2 that is currently sitting. I swapped the main relays to see if it would solve the problem, but to no avail.

When you turn the key, the fuel pump you can hear prime everytime, but then no clicking or anything turning over when you try turn the key to start it. As i stated before it takes usually over 30 minutes for it to start up again.

I came across in searching that coldstarting uses more of your battery while hotstarting uses your starter more.

Is this an electrical issue, a spark issue? I've tried to troubleshoot it; I do possess a multimeter but don't know how to really use it. I tried looking for links or any relevant info but am not too keen. Anyone willing to walk me through this?

GoodSkoolRevltn

So i got a break from work and went home to try to start it again. Its 81 degrees today and it still will not start. Please help.

fcm

Sounds like either a starter/solenoid, ign. switch or connection problem, all are **** to heat related problems.

I would start by checking/redoing the main grounds, [batt. post and cable clamp, batt. to chassis ground and chassis to engine ground] DO NOT just eyeball them, disconnect/clean/reconnect and see if it makes a diff.

If not, when it fails to start, do a bypass jump, [use a jumper to supply power directly to the starter motor solenoid] make sure car is not in gear.

If still no crank, make sure the batt. to starter motor cable connection is good/clean and tight, if good the problem is the solenoid, repair or replace it.

If engine does crank when doing the bypass jump, you have a connection problem between the ign. switch and the solenoid, either the ign. switch is bad, starter relay is bad, [5speed] Automatic Gear Position Switch, [auto] or possibly a bad CIS, [5 speed].

What year is the chassis? 94

GoodSkoolRevltn

Thanks for the reply, i will look into these things first thing in the morning, and let you know how it goes.

This evening I tried to start the car again, and it did not start again. Same symptoms, but now it cannot be a hotstart issue.

4doorpimpn

+1 This guy has walked me through a few "No Starts" LOL. He knows his chit! It sounds to me like a bad ICM on account of the heat related systems when it first started. Now the ICM has taken a complete dump... Just my $.02. Good Luck!

fcm

The ICM has nothing to do with engine cranking, it is a starter motor or starter motor related problem. 94

4doorpimpn

I'm confused then... Mine was doing the same thing. No start when hot b/c either the ICM or the coil was malfunctioning when hot. I fixed those issues and (knock on wood) I haven't had anymore no starts.

And I am not argueing the point... I am learning b/c I know you are a guru on these matters.

fcm

I think you are confused about the term "crank/cranking" or maybe OP is.

Engine cranking means starter motor is working, engine is turning over.

Not to be confused with starting, where engine cranks, fires and starts/runs.

OP said, "but then no clicking or anything turning over when you try turn the key to start it.

I am assuming he means starter is not working. 94

GoodSkoolRevltn

Yes, my problem went from a hot start issue to a now no start issue. Here is a pic of what I believe is the starter solenoid. I am not sure exactly how to jump the starter (but that doesn't mean I shouldnt be doing it, maybe). Again the fuel pump primes, but then there is no type of click or engine cranking whatsoever. Which wire would I hook up to the positive terminal on the batter to bypass the starter, the little guy or the bigger guy. Or could I do this with one of those battery jump starters hooked up to the solenoid? I saw a youtube video of a guy doing this to a d series motor (hooking it up to the car batter that is), and am also watching eric the car guy to hopefully help.

Again, I already swapped out the main relay with a newer, lower milage integra I also have as a project.

I haven't poked around with my multimeter, but am looking around for any loose/dirty grounds or connections. I also installed kmanager on my laptop and here is what shows up. Let me know if there is anything else I can show you to help me figure this out.


Also with the kmanager, everything is off. I tried tinkering with it to turn it on but am really clueless as to how to use it (but hopefully not for long)

fcm

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...&highlight=fcm 94

GoodSkoolRevltn

OK. Thanks for the link to that writeup. Its hard sometimes to dig and dig and not know what your even looking for. So I jumped the starter using the positive to the lead terminal. Motor cranked. I then turned the key for s***s and giggles, EURIKA!. Motor started right up. I do not have a test light, but I will invest in one. I also got my multimeter from my uncle maybe 7 years ago, the battery exploded inside and it no longer works. To harbor freight I go tomorrow.

The only kind of test light I have would be the kind that you stick in wall outlets lights up if current flows I suppose (or negative current right?). Would this serve the same purpose?

Also, anything you can tell me from what's happening? Given the tools I possess. I really appreciate all your help, you are a blessing to this forum for newbs and am grateful for your patience.

4doorpimpn

Very good point. That was my confusion...

fcm

You will need to buy the standard, [cheap] 12V test light, it uses an ordinary bulb not an LED type.

A standard 12V test light should not cost more then $2.99 a very good on will be under $15, just remember you do not want an >>>LED<<< type 12V test light, the advantage of the standard one is the "load" of the light bulb.

If I understand you correctly, engine starts/runs when doing the bypass jump, [if the ign. key is turned on] but not when using the key by itself, is that correct?

Or did you mean, after you did the bypass jump the car now starts with the key?

In the first case it means there is an open circuit between the ign. switch, [starter output] and the starter solenoid, that can be a problem with the ign. switch itself, the CIS, starter relay, [5 speed] Automatic Gear Position Switch, [automatic] or wiring connections

In the second case, car now starts/runs with key, the problem would have been a connection problem of the starter lead to the solenoid that was "fixed" when you unplugged and plugged the starter lead off/on the solenoid. 94

GoodSkoolRevltn

Back at this as well as other problems in the suspension ive encountered/repaired

Id say that the car starts from the key 10% of the time... Otherwise i have to bypass and jump the starter with the key in ignition position to fire it up

Sometimes there is a click and no start... Other times it doesnt click at all... Fuel pump does prime

I have changed the starter relay with another one i had laying around... I looked inside of the relay and all the solder points look clean and good

Should i refer to the link you put up prior on how to take it from here???

Last time i was at hf i bought a multimeter. If u wouldnt mind spoon-feeding me how to diagnose from here i would greatly appreciate it

fcm

Measure voltage on starter lead at ign. switch when trying to start, then on the starter lead at the starter motor solenoid, starter lead must be plugged in, [both tests] and test done when engine is not cranking.

If there is a drop in voltage at the ign. switch, the ign. switch is bad...

http://www.visualimpressions.ca/switch/

In your case it is the starter contact(s) that have gone west.

If the voltage drop is at the solenoid the problem is going to be harder to find, every connection point of the starter lead between the ign. switch and the solenoid will have to be checked, time consuming as tests need to be done when problem occurs.

So before you go through all that, [you may have to] make a jumper, [same gauge as starter lead, 12ga I think] run it, [temporarily] from the engine bay to the ign. switch harness plug, depin the the starter lead from the plug on the ign. switch side of the harness, crimp on a fully insulated quick disconnect, [male or female, which ever is needed] so you can plug the starter lead plug terminal into it, do the same at the starter motor solenoid, [it will be a female quick disconnect and does not have to be fully insulated] this will take everything out of the starter circuit except the ign. switch.

The above can be done before any testing to narrow the problem, or don't have the "tools", if the jumper, [bypass jump from ign, switch] solves the problem, you know the ign. switch is not the problem, you already know it is not the starter motor or solenoid, bypass jump works.

If the problem persists, replace the ign. switch, consider yourself lucky, replacing ign. switch can be done in 1/2 an hour with a Philips screw driver, tracing the bad connection in the starter circuit can mean a dash pull.


Although a multimeter is a good thing to have, your first electrical diagnostic tool should have been a non LED type 12V test light, then the multimeter.

FYI, if the bypass jumper works, you could just leave it in place, [run more "permanently"] untill you can fix the problem, that way at least you will not get stuck anywhere.

I do not recommend leaving the bypass jump in permanently, as in a "fix", that's not because it will be a problem, [other then no clutch lockout] as long as done properly, I just don't like anything "rigged".

Like I said, consider yourself lucky, this is what I have to deal with tomorrow and every Saterday for the next few months...






94

4doorpimpn

F That!